Where are the TRUE masters

[Don Roley]

Where are the True masters?

Being very quiet.

A true master need not shout about himself, not point to papers or stripes.
He just is.

The blowhard and egomaniac spends much time pointing to his stripes, waving his papers around, and naming all those he ever trained with, so that you will know how great he is.

A true master need not call himself master.
Others will call him that.

A false master will introduce himself as "Master", or "Soke" or some such crap.
A True Master needs no title. He just is.

The false master attracts attention, and is in a constant state of "look at me".
The true master, has nothing to prove, and so may appear ordinary.

A false master will brag, and strut, then blame others for his failings.
A True Master is humble, and quiet, but will strike like lightning if need be, and take full responsibility for himself.

We have both on here.

I gotta go with Blackadder.

We have had folks sign up with "Soke" as part of their title. Instead of "Edmund Blackadder", it would be "Soke Blackadder." Needless to say, they were the most clueless folks around.

We have had a lot of folks somehow slip in the fact that they were a shihan, tenth dan, etc and then try to make a big deal of being humble about it. "Yeah I was made a shihan- but it really doesn't mean much IMO."

So why arrange it so people can find out about it?

Compare this with folks who won't mention their rank at all. People like Kreth just won't talk about their rank, but they could impress folks if they wanted.

On the internet we get quite a few idiots that try to impress others. The guys that really know their stuff don't seem to feel the need to impress others. The liers never seem to stick to one lie. I can think of folks that were caught lying about being in USMC Force Recon who also lied about being trained in Koga ryu. And guess what- people who knew that particular fraud said that he could not even do a decent punch and was a coward when confronted in person.

So when someone makes a lot of stories and claims to impress me, it only leaves a bad impression.

Those that don't make claims without a damn good reason are the ones I respect.

 

[terryl965]

Just to add as a side note here true Master are one that are here to teach the Art and not a sport, I have never understood someone being a Master teaching a sport.
Terry

 

[Dark]

How ironic, since your profile lists your Primary Art and Ranking as "Ninjitsu [sic], Shihan Godan"

Formality nothing more...

 

[Dark]

Just to add as a side note here true Master are one that are here to teach the Art and not a sport, I have never understood someone being a Master teaching a sport.
Terry

There are master tennis players and master hockey players why not master (enter martial art) players?

 

[terryl965]

There are master tennis players and master hockey players why not master (enter martial art) players?

Sorry sir I have never heard the word Master associated with Tennis or Hockey, maybe professional but not Master.
Terry

 

[Dark]

What about Wayne Gretzky? Sorry I don't play tennis lol Seriously being called a master at a subject, be it martial arts or chess is one thing. A master at life is something different...

 

[Rook]

What about Wayne Gretzky? Sorry I don't play tennis lol Seriously being called a master at a subject, be it martial arts or chess is one thing. A master at life is something different...

True enough - chess has rating of master, international master and grandmaster when you accumulate enough points.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I was reading the latest Blitz magazine and in it was an article about the topic of masters.
Put simply the fact that in this moment of time there are more students of all martial arts training than at any other moment of time and yet there are very few if any True masters being produced.
Back in the day there was people like Bruce Lee, Kano, Musashi, Mas Omara just to name a few, so why with more people on the ground are we not getting any new TRUE ones?
Your thoughts...

Back on Topic:

True Master?

Some might say that Bruce was not a "TRUE" Master as he did follow the traditional path. Yet now later in history many consider him as such.

Where have they gone or where are they?

I think some train, and train those who are serious. They do not try to promote themselves on the internet nor in the public eye but just train themselves and their students.

Now this does not mean that a Master cannot use the the internet, only given the recent usage of such as compared to the last couple of hundred years of martial arts.

I agree with what some others have said. They are out there and do not require titles or honorifics in their name. And if it is there it is because of the student using it in honor and respect.

Personally, I do not like the title. Some have used it in reference to me and I have it for a system I teach, but I prefer not to use it at all. That is me.

 

[silatman]

Wow, just a couple of responses.


The way that the article that started off this thread defined the word "master" was somebody that made a style their own or somebody that changed the way that things were done to such a degree that the art that they now perform is so different from what they were taught themselves as to be totally unrecognisable from the original art.
The article didn't agree and neither do I that the term "master" should be used for somebody who has attained a high rank or even the highest rank affordable in any choosen system. instead they just recognized the fact that some one can become amazing efficient or powerful in an art that they have studied for a given amount of time but to be a master you need to be able to go beyond copying techniques or using taught principal and actually think beyond your own instructions.

I do hope that there are people out there doing things thier own way and eventually they will be recognized, it would be a shame to keep re-hashing the same old moves under the guise of a new name.
I go back to my original question, people say they are there but where and who?

 

[MJS]

I was reading the latest Blitz magazine and in it was an article about the topic of masters.
Put simply the fact that in this moment of time there are more students of all martial arts training than at any other moment of time and yet there are very few if any True masters being produced.
Back in the day there was people like Bruce Lee, Kano, Musashi, Mas Omara just to name a few, so why with more people on the ground are we not getting any new TRUE ones?
Your thoughts...

I have to agree with a few of the posters here. There are many people out there who have put in quite a bit of time into training, really understanding the art, as well as being able to teach the art to people. The thing of it is, is that sometimes, we have to put in a little work and seek out these people, as they're not always going to be found nextdoor.

Mike

 

[Last Fearner]

Hello, masterfinger. :wavey:

First, I want to thank you for your thoughtful response to my comments. You were honest and up-front about your different take on my analogies, and I respect that. Allow me to respond to your observations.

Last, though I can agree to some of your post, your examples are way wrong.
1. When a semi-driver is sitting a stop sign, he pulls out when it's safe to do so, not anytime he wants. I'm guessing you've never driven a semi :uhyeah:.

Yes sir, you are correct. I have never driven a semi! However, my brother drove semis, and I rode along with him as navigator, and personal protection. My uncle drove semi in Arizona, and I rode with him. Also, my father drove a fuel tanker for a while until a car full of elderly people pulled out in front of him. Fortunately, no one was killed as my father turned enough to run over the trunk of their car. So the answer to the question, "when do you pull out in front of a semi?" might be "Never" - unless you have a death wish.

When I was in the Army, I drove a gama-goat (six-wheel drive vehicle), and a deuce and half (two-and-half ton truck). At Army Reserve training in Michigan, you see signs on the road that show a picture of a tank, and say, "tank crossing." Out of the clear blue, an 8" howitzer tank might pop up from a side path, and cross a road un-announced. I guess my analogy could have been, "when does a tank cross a road - - answer: "anytime it wants." lol :apv:

The semi comment I made is an old joke that I thought was fitting. Your touch of reality is accurate. Most semi drivers know better than to just pull out in front of cars. I have seen many of them sitting, frustrated, because they can't get a break in traffic. However, I have also seen many who will eventually, slowly edge out, and cross four lanes, bringing all traffic to a halt as though they have a built in traffic light attached to thier roof. Once, I saw the aftermath of a car that did not take note of a semi doing this, and buried itself under the tires of the trailer. If a semi driver really wants to pull out, he could, and not much is going to stop him, except another semi (or perhaps a tank! - lol).

2. When it comes bears, they cant sleep anywhere they want to. If a bear comes into or even near most areas where humans are, the bear either get's chased off, tranquilized then hauled off, or if it becomes overly aggressive, they shoot it.
Don't mean to bust yer chops, but I couldn't see the logic in those.

Again, you are right! There is not much "logic" to the analogy - - it is not meant to be logical. It is like saying "what does a lion eat?" Being at the top of the food chain, "pretty much anything he wants." Realistically, there are things lions do not eat. The point is, if you see a lion eating something, and you say "hey, stop eating that - - that's not something lions are supposed to eat," I don't think your going to change who or what the lion is, or get him to stop eating, simply because he is doing something you think he shouldn't.

As for the bear, if he is sleepy enough, he does not need to ask permission to sleep somewhere. This does not mean that a bear is going to fall asleep under water, or that someone or something is not going to wake the bear up. There are consequences for the bear if he sleeps somewhere unsafe, and consequences for the person who wakes him up! lol (and by the way, I have never woken up a sleeping bear either - - except maybe at a zoo once.) The point is not "can you stop a bear from sleeping somewhere." It is that you should not assume that you will only find a bear sleeping in the woods, or that if a bear decides to sleep in a log cabin, that he ceases to be a bear.

[by the way, when I say "you" in my response, I don't mean you personally, masterfinger. I just mean people in general]

Legally, and morally there are potential consequences to all of our actions. My point was that many people say what a "true Master" would never say or do, and I'm suggesting that this is not always the case. Masters often do and say the things others think they shouldn't. They are humans, and they can have good days and bad days, and make mistakes. They have the right, and power (same as anyone else) to be, say, and do as they please, and still be Masters. If their actions bring their honesty, integrity, and character in question, then that is another issue. However, if they want to advertise a school, talk on the internet, or introduce themselves as "Master" so-and-so, then I do not believe that this precludes them from being a "True Master."

That's just my opinion on the subject, and I respect those who feel differently.

Last Fearner

 

[trueaspirer]

Many of today's ma schools are black belt factories. Get them to apply, hit them with the standard cookie-cutter mold, push 'em out. Everybody goes home happy, the school that much richer. It is much less common to find a school that is really dedicated to helping each and every student do their best. It is that kind of inspiration that makes the masters.

 

[terryl965]

All this what makes a True Master is a bunch of ****, plan and simple. A True Master of any MA style is one that dedicates himself or herself to there particular style for there entire life, one that has become to understand inner peace and last but foremost is one that is out there evry single day and helping the community and the city, state and country they live in.

Working at the homeless shelter once a week volenterring at the church or rec. center or the hospital and not looking for the pat on the back from anybody, they are there because they choose to be there.

Our police officers and firemen and women are Master, the military would also be consider a Master for there particular countrys.


And last but certainly not least by any means GOD the one and only is the all mighty Master for the entire world.

Can I get a AMEN from the masses!!!!!

Terry

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I find it interesting the difference between Eastern and Western martial arst as concerns the importance they traditionally appear to put on the title "Master".

In the old English ( late Middle Ages/Early Renaissance) schools of swordplay such as the techniques presented by George Silver in 1599 with his book "Paradoxes of Defence", in those days the word "master" simply meant someone older, and senior to you who taught you something( in many older English private schools teachers are sometimes still called "Masters" or "professors" onstead of Teachers as in the US) where in Eastern traditions it seems to carry more weight or imply a deeper plane of existence, or at least since it's come over the pond we've given it that status......

 

[Kreth]

in those days the word "master" simply meant someone older, and senior to you who taught you something

This is basically what the accepted translation of Sensei means. So now you see why I think it's silly for someone to refer to themself as Sensei. It's basically announcing yourself as a role model...

 

[Andy Moynihan]

*nods*. We think it's just "teacher" but it isn't. "Sen" means "before" and sei means "born" or "generation" so Sensei just means "One who is born before", the idea being anyone who's been around longer can be your teacher. Lost in translation indeed.:idunno:

 

[Franc0]

Hi again LF:wavey:, I hear what you're sayin bud. Sorry, but sometimes when things aren't KISS to me I tend to nitpick:soapbox:

I can see where you come from when you've driven a duece!


Franco

 

[Adept]

But what kind of results are they? Real or assumed?

The effective difference being? If someone can handle themselves, then they can handle themselves, regardless of how many street fights they get under their belts.

Real life, that point where you quit thinking, practicing and start doing.

So the ring would be real then?

Let me give you a better example. I remember stories about Dojos in Japan that would attack and challenge other dojos. For the most part these were basicly street fights. It doesn't get anymore real then that...

Why should 'street' experience be so important? If one goes looking for trouble, one ends up in jail. If one does not, one rarely finds trouble. Does that mean one couldn't handle it if they did? Of course not.

Doesn't get any more real than that? Being able to injure people without the constraint of rules is the most important thing? The the Washington Sniper was one of the greatest martial arts masters ever!

Everyday of your life and every second where choose to take responsiblity for the path your life is on...

You're getting overly esoteric here. You were implying that there was a 'trial by fire' that martial artists underwent, and those who had yet to undertake this trial were somehow less important.

Then you say that this trial is every day of your life that you choose your own fate. Which is everyday for everyone.

 

[Adept]

Sorry sir I have never heard the word Master associated with Tennis or Hockey, maybe professional but not Master.
Terry

Well, it depends on what definition of 'master' you are using. As a formal title and rank, then no. As a measure of skill and ability, then yes.

 

[Adept]

All this what makes a True Master is a bunch of ****, plan and simple. A True Master of any MA style is one that dedicates himself or herself to there particular style for there entire life, one that has become to understand inner peace and last but foremost is one that is out there evry single day and helping the community and the city, state and country they live in.

I disagree. Dedicating ones life to an art is not enough. They also have to have the natural ability, ambition and discipline to be the best. Not just the best they can be, but better than their peers as well.

Further, inner peace and helping the community does not make one a master. It makes one a good person, and an asset to the community. But it doesn't make them a martial arts master.