Where are the TRUE masters

[Franc0]

I once heard "The truly dedicated students of today are the Masters of future generations". I think some of todays modern Masters are busy perfecting their craft instead of professing their "mastery" to others. Perhaps our children or grandchildren will recognize some that we barely know about now. The blowhards, McMasters & charlatans will simply fade into obscurity.

Franco

 

[Dark]

The blowhards, McMasters & charlatans will simply fade into obscurity.

Franco

I don't know, those who talk the most are heard the loudest... I cringe at three words "soke" hanshi and shihan. lol

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

First of all, if bread can die, someone needs to let me know. I haven't eaten meat for two years and bread has been a staple of my diet. Are you telling me I was not truly vegetarian these past two years? I would also appreciate any links to the mating rituals and lifecycles of bread. Clearly I am misinformed. A master such as yourself should be able to direct a lowly student such as myself to the proper resources.

There was an entire series on Discovery Channel. Turns out that the Wheat tribe are a dying bread, as inbreading with the White breads has muddied the line. One must check the label carefully when looking for pure breads.

Oh, and avoid the French bread. Its a rather crusty lot.

Only been training about two years, but I have NEVER heard of a school where you do not sign a contract saying you will not hold the school responsible for any injuries you may recieve.

You can sign it, but there are limits to just what that waiver covers. It doesn't forgive negligence on the part of the school.

 

[Dark]

You can sign it, but there are limits to just what that waiver covers. It doesn't forgive negligence on the part of the school.

If those waivers ment anything no one would need insurance, they are just there to prove the student's stupidity. Stupidity being willingly enter a dangerous enviroment and asolve others of blame for there training methods, which may be harmful to them under certain situations.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Where are the True masters?

Being very quiet.

A true master need not shout about himself, not point to papers or stripes.
He just is.

The blowhard and egomaniac spends much time pointing to his stripes, waving his papers around, and naming all those he ever trained with, so that you will know how great he is.

A true master need not call himself master.
Others will call him that.

A false master will introduce himself as "Master", or "Soke" or some such crap.
A True Master needs no title. He just is.

The false master attracts attention, and is in a constant state of "look at me".
The true master, has nothing to prove, and so may appear ordinary.

A false master will brag, and strut, then blame others for his failings.
A True Master is humble, and quiet, but will strike like lightning if need be, and take full responsibility for himself.

We have both on here.

 

[pstarr]

I think we need to acquire a firm definition of what we mean by "mastery" and "master."

 

[Dark]

I think we need to acquire a firm definition of what we mean by "mastery" and "master."

Agreed... I have mine which I explained earilier defines two aspects knowledge (skill in a martial arts and knowing how to apply it) and self-mastery (control over one's emotions, thoughts and especially agression.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mastery: is the ability to use knowledge. Differing levels of application indicate the level of mastery at which the students presently perform. While a teacher might be able to apply the information or knowledge in one area, it may take greater skill to apply the same knowledge in differing disciplines or areas.

Master: an authority qualified to teach apprentices

 

[pstarr]

I'm not comfortable with defining a "master" as one who has the ability to use knowledge. To me, "mastery" would imply that one has acquired the epitome of physical and mental skill within his or her chosen discipline, a level beyond which things lean into the spiritual...

A teacher has acquired knowledge and skill, is able to apply them, and is able to effectively transmit what he or she has learned. But this is not a "master."

Moreover, those who aspire to become masters often refer to themselves as such. A real master never refers to him or her self by that title - and usually doesn't like for anyone else to do so, either.

Thoughts?

 

[Last Fearner]

I mean no offense to anyone who has expressed their views here, but I find it amusing (in a good way), how so many have their "rules" of what a so-called "Master" would, or would not say, or do. Most people can identify a phony master who brags about his accomplishments, but fails to perform in any way near what his alleged high skill should be. However, I believe that the only one who can define what a master is, is a master.

Many who are not masters, will say they are masters. Many who are not masters will say that they can identify a master, and determine who is and is not a master. Some will say a "true Master" would never do this, and never say that, but I believe masters come in many forms, and will do and say as they please. Most students will build their own pedestals, and put their own master (or their ideal, famous Martial Artist) up there and say, "that is a true Master, and anyone who does not match the height of the pedestal I built, is not a Master..... or they will build the pedestal and say, "A true Master would never sit on a pedestal, so anyone who climbs up there is not a true Master."

Consider this - - when a semi-driver is sitting at a stop sign on a side street as heavy traffic goes back and forth, when does he pull out across all lanes to turn left?......... Never?, When traffic is clear? Answer: anytime he wants. Where does a bear sleep? In the woods? In a cave?.......Answer: anywhere he wants. In my opinion, True Masters of the Martial Art are everywhere. Some shine, and lead better than others. Some have successful schools while others have small private classes. Some don't teach at all. Some have won many battles in the street, and some are tournament champions, while others have the honor and distinction of never having had to fight.

Some Masters remain quiet and humble, while others shout from the roof-tops, and lead others with charisma, and notable character. Some Masters introduce themselves as "Joe Smith," and say, "just call me 'Joe'!" While other masters will use proper titles and proudly say, "I am Master Jones," or "My name is Grandmaster Smith."

Having the title of Master attached to your name does not make you a master, but it does not exclude a person from being one. Winning tournament championships does not make you a master, but it does not mean you are not one. Doing all the things that people say a "true Master" shouldn't do, does not make you a Master, but it does not prove that you are not one.

Who is a Master? Only the Master, and his/her Grandmaster knows for sure. Years ago, a Master was noted for doing something rare, and exceptional like winning battles with bare hands, or swords, or they were the humble teachers of others who did brave things. Today, the rare and exceptional events are being a good person, raising a family and being a good spouse, and a good mom or dad. Today's masters avoid fights and conflicts instead of falling prey to the stereotype that a Black Belt instructor must beat people up to be a "true Master."

Am I a true Master?? Only time will tell. Heh, the history books might write me up as being more of a Master than Bruce Lee, Jigoro Kano, Morehei Uyeshiba, etc, or the history books might not mention my name at all. Either way, I am who I am - - and I'm happy with that.

Thanks, :asian:
Last Fearner

 

[terryl965]

I mean no offense to anyone who has expressed their views here, but I find it amusing (in a good way), how so many have their "rules" of what a so-called "Master" would, or would not say, or do. Most people can identify a phony master who brags about his accomplishments, but fails to perform in any way near what his alleged high skill should be. However, I believe that the only one who can define what a master is, is a master.

Many who are not masters, will say they are masters. Many who are not masters will say that they can identify a master, and determine who is and is not a master. Some will say a "true Master" would never do this, and never say that, but I believe masters come in many forms, and will do and say as they please. Most students will build their own pedestals, and put their own master (or their ideal, famous Martial Artist) up there and say, "that is a true Master, and anyone who does not match the height of the pedestal I built, is not a Master..... or they will build the pedestal and say, "A true Master would never sit on a pedestal, so anyone who climbs up there is not a true Master."

Consider this - - when a semi-driver is sitting at a stop sign on a side street as heavy traffic goes back and forth, when does he pull out across all lanes to turn left?......... Never?, When traffic is clear? Answer: anytime he wants. Where does a bear sleep? In the woods? In a cave?.......Answer: anywhere he wants. In my opinion, True Masters of the Martial Art are everywhere. Some shine, and lead better than others. Some have successful schools while others have small private classes. Some don't teach at all. Some have won many battles in the street, and some are tournament champions, while others have the honor and distinction of never having had to fight.

Some Masters remain quiet and humble, while others shout from the roof-tops, and lead others with charisma, and notable character. Some Masters introduce themselves as "Joe Smith," and say, "just call me 'Joe'!" While other masters will use proper titles and proudly say, "I am Master Jones," or "My name is Grandmaster Smith."

Having the title of Master attached to your name does not make you a master, but it does not exclude a person from being one. Winning tournament championships does not make you a master, but it does not mean you are not one. Doing all the things that people say a "true Master" shouldn't do, does not make you a Master, but it does not prove that you are not one.

Who is a Master? Only the Master, and his/her Grandmaster knows for sure. Years ago, a Master was noted for doing something rare, and exceptional like winning battles with bare hands, or swords, or they were the humble teachers of others who did brave things. Today, the rare and exceptional events are being a good person, raising a family and being a good spouse, and a good mom or dad. Today's masters avoid fights and conflicts instead of falling prey to the stereotype that a Black Belt instructor must beat people up to be a "true Master."

Am I a true Master?? Only time will tell. Heh, the history books might write me up as being more of a Master than Bruce Lee, Jigoro Kano, Morehei Uyeshiba, etc, or the history books might not mention my name at all. Either way, I am who I am - - and I'm happy with that.

Thanks, :asian:
Last Fearner

That was simply beautiful and you would be one in my book.
Terry

 

[Kreth]

I don't know, those who talk the most are heard the loudest... I cringe at three words "soke" hanshi and shihan. lol

How ironic, since your profile lists your Primary Art and Ranking as "Ninjitsu [sic], Shihan Godan"

 

[Dark]

How ironic, since your profile lists your Primary Art and Ranking as "Ninjitsu [sic], Shihan Godan"

Now you know why I cringe at those words... lol

Some styles have the "tradition" of stating Shihan (enter belt rank) or Hanshi (enter belt rank) I used to belong to one such group. Never addressed myself as shihan, I see the title as a rank within itself and not sign of anything more...

 

[Franc0]

Consider this - - 1. when a semi-driver is sitting at a stop sign on a side street as heavy traffic goes back and forth, when does he pull out across all lanes to turn left?......... Never?, When traffic is clear? Answer: anytime he wants. 2. Where does a bear sleep? In the woods? In a cave?.......Answer: anywhere he wants. In my opinion, True Masters of the Martial Art are everywhere.

Last, though I can agree to some of your post, your examples are way wrong.
1. When a semi-driver is sitting a stop sign, he pulls out when it's safe to do so, not anytime he wants. I'm guessing you've never driven a semi :uhyeah:.
2. When it comes bears, they cant sleep anywhere they want to. If a bear comes into or even near most areas where humans are, the bear either get's chased off, tranquilized then hauled off, or if it becomes overly aggressive, they shoot it.
Don't mean to bust yer chops, but I couldn't see the logic in those.

Franco

 

[Dark]

Don't mean to bust yer chops, but I couldn't see the logic in those.

Franco

I actually did, see the semi-driver can pull out anytime his or she wants, now wether it is smart to do is a different story. Same with the bears, a bear can sleep anywhere it wants so long as additional factors make it advisible to do so. Get the picture...

A master by that analogy, acts with a high concept and foresees the outcome of events. Taking charge of their life and not being influenced by others, but that if I'm getting it right? Or did I over analyize it Last?

 

[Franc0]

I actually did, see the semi-driver can pull out anytime his or she wants,1. now wether it is smart to do is a different story. Same with the bears, 2. a bear can sleep anywhere it wants so long as additional factors make it advisible to do so. Get the picture...
A master by that analogy, acts with a high concept and foresees the outcome of events.

1. Not only that, but the safety factor has to be put into consideration to ensure the safety of his or herself & the lives of others, so only a driver who's a total numbnut would go "whenever they want".

2. If the bear has to consider additional factors before it is advisable to do so, then again it's being kept from sleeping literally anywhere it wants, or it suffers consequences.

Now you could use these examples if you wanted to make the point that those that call and/or consider themselves "Masters anytime they want" are numbnuts and will eventually crash & burn or whatever, but I don't think thats the point that Last Fearner wanted to convey.

Franco

 

[celtic_crippler]

They're out there. But not many people dedicate their entire lives to a Martial Art.

 

[Dark]

2. If the bear has to consider additional factors before it is advisable to do so, then again it's being kept from sleeping literally anywhere it wants, or it suffers consequences.

There are always reactions to our actions and not all of them are good. Some are just tragic, and the results of good intentions. I shouldn't have beat up a state trooper but I did and I'll suffer the conseques when it goes to trial, same as him for his "issues."

Every action has a reaction, you can drive off into traffic saying I'm bigger move. Or you can wait for a better time. Either action has a consequence, its just how you choose to see it...

 

[Adept]

"Instead of there being half a dozen 'true masters', we now have hundreds, if not thousands of people across the globe who have managed to reach similar levels of skill and dedication. The bar has been raised, so simply being as good as the 'true masters' were is no longer enough to significantly distinguish oneself from the crowd."

I disagree with this I find less qualified instructors, and more watered down MAs then years only 10 ago. True masters are not going to be found in this unless you look in some very out of the way places. The older more disoplined way has been pushed aside for easier and more politically correct methods.

But youre experiences represent only a tiny fraction of the global martial arts community. The older, more disciplined ways being pushed aside? No, they've just changed with the times. Like I said, there is a huge number of McDojos out there. But at the same time, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people putting in the hard yards, day after day, and getting results.

The fittest and strongest have nothing to do with it, Ali beat men who were younger, stronger and faster then him in his latter days. There is an old saying I got from this country friend of mine, "The toughest dog isn't leading the pack he is sleeping on the porch."

If all other things are equal, then the man with the advantage will win, whether that advantage is skill, experience, strength, endurance, or just luck. Those younger, fitter and stronger fighters than Ali, for example, obviously didn't have enough of an advantage to overcome him.

The idea is that it takes real skill and real knowledge that comes from real experience.

Define real

The most skilled fighter in the dojo or ring isn't squatt on the street unless he or she has experience there.

What I think you meant to say was that relevant experience is a valuable asset. And I agree.

What makes a real master is control and disopline.

And natural talent, and ambition. And, I would add, no small measure of ego.

There is a trial by fire where you are released from the dojo and handed to the world, that experience with the world is your "trial by fire" so to speak...

There is? Where? When?

 

[Dark]

But youre experiences represent only a tiny fraction of the global martial arts community. The older, more disciplined ways being pushed aside? No, they've just changed with the times. Like I said, there is a huge number of McDojos out there. But at the same time, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people putting in the hard yards, day after day, and getting results.

But what kind of results are they? Real or assumed?

Define real

Real life, that point where you quit thinking, practicing and start doing. Let me give you a better example. I remember stories about Dojos in Japan that would attack and challenge other dojos. For the most part these were basicly street fights. It doesn't get anymore real then that...

There is? Where? When?

Everyday of your life and every second where choose to take responsiblity for the path your life is on...