What is an "Honorary" Black Belt?

[James Kovacich]

Actually, the color Black is what makes it a BB. What makes it credible is how honestly the evaluator rates your work and whether he/she sees it as BB level.

I agree that you should earn it, but does that always mean in ONE school with ONE instructor under ONE curriculum? I don't think it has to mean that. I joined the service and left my primary instructor for years. While I was gone, I kept up with what I learned to the point of leaving but trained in TKD, RyuKyu Kempo, Wing CHun....none of them to any degree of expertise, but I was training as regularly as I could.

When I returned, I was given a settling in time and awared a promotion from my leaving rank to the next grade up because my 'other training' met the quality standards and satisfied the requirements from within the system.

There have been many discussions about how certain arts are similar in so many ways....why would it be wrong to recognize that a side kick that you learned in TKD is good enough to check off that block/requirement in Kenpo or another art as long as the quality is there?

You have another example of merit. You still earned it, just in a differant manner.

 

[ppko]

Generally, it means that your BB in your other systems - in the instructor's eyes- is being recognized as an equivalency of skill in the instructor's system and you are treated with the same benefits as a BB in his system.

Though you don't know the curriculum per se, you do demonstrate the skill, proficiency and character (if a prerequisite) that is similar to that in the other systems.

It's 'nice' but you have to be careful if you are promoting yourself (advertising wise) that it may come under fire if you try to list your 'honorary BB' in the other arts.

I tend to keep it conservative and only talk about the stuff that I can verify through records.

Some people also earn honary Blackbelts for there contributions to the arts.

 

[Miles]

Some people receive honorary black belts for contribution to the art, some for their contribution to the instructor.

Miles

 

[masherdong]

Interesting opinions. Thanks for your input guys. Please continue to post them.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Some organizations bestow Honorary Black Belts on individuals who have contributed in many ways to make the organization better without actually being a student. Some do not. Ours does not, because I asked one time. You are either black belt or you are not. There is no "Honorary" about it. Now, if a non-student contributes to the organization in different ways, he or she will be recognized. But giving them an HBB almost insults everyone else who actually tested to earn black belts.
We have had situations similar to the ones described: students who were about ready to test became very ill or some other situation where they could not physically test, often due to health reasons. In these cases, they were allowed to paper test: They filled out the testing applications, as well as an essay detailing exactly why they were unable to test. complete with medical documentation. This, together with their Instructor's recommendation and their organizational history and credit determined whether they passed to Dan rank. it doesn't happen very often, because you get one chance to paper test. After that, you test normally or don't advance.

 

[John Bishop]

Hey guys,

I was wondering what does it mean when some instructors say that they will make you an "Honorary" black belt? I am a 2nd Dan in Kajukenbo and I was told that I would be an "Honorary" black belt in EPAK and TKD by two different instructors. Please explain.

Thanks.

In your case I would guess these instructors have 2 reasons.

1. They want you for a student. It's sometimes hard for black belts to start over again as a white belt, so they're telling you that you can still be a "black belt" in their school.

2. They want more students. When someone comes into a school and sees only low ranking belts there, it looks like either the students don't stay long, or the school and instructor is pretty new.
Having black belts in the class makes the school look well established, and look like the students like it enough to spend many years there.

Now hopefully these instructor's will not give you a "real" black belt until you actually learn their material and test on it.

 

[shane23ss]

They want more students. When someone comes into a school and sees only low ranking belts there, it looks like either the students don't stay long, or the school and instructor is pretty new.
Having black belts in the class makes the school look well established, and look like the students like it enough to spend many years there.

I never really thought of this. Do you suggest this for a school owner just starting out, if it is possible?

 

[John Bishop]

I never really thought of this. Do you suggest this for a school owner just starting out, if it is possible?

My personal policy is if someone has put in the years of training to become a black belt, then I respect and acknowledge it.
I do not believe in "cross ranking", but they are welcome to wear their black belt along with the patch and uniform of the system they hold a blackbelt in.
Once they learn the Kajukenbo requirements they are welcome to test for a blackbelt in Kajukenbo. Then they can wear a Kajukenbo uniform, patch, with a black belt.

This has 3 advantages.
Number 1, you don't comprimize you ethics by cross ranking.

Number 2, you make the black belt feel respected in your school.

Number 3, visitor's and color belt students will be impressed that a black belt from another school/system is interested in learning from you.

If you cross rank someone, it will backfire on you. Because students and visitors will see a black belt in your school that dosent know your system. Makes the quality of your instruction and promotions look kinda low.

 

[GAB]

Hi all,

I can honestly say this is about the best answer I have seen on this subject, regarding this thread, or any other thread pertaining to this question...

Regards, Gary

My personal policy is if someone has put in the years of training to become a black belt, then I respect and acknowledge it.
I do not believe in "cross ranking", but they are welcome to wear their black belt along with the patch and uniform of the system they hold a blackbelt in.
Once they learn the Kajukenbo requirements they are welcome to test for a blackbelt in Kajukenbo. Then they can wear a Kajukenbo uniform, patch, with a black belt.

This has 3 advantages.
Number 1, you don't comprimize you ethics by cross ranking.

Number 2, you make the black belt feel respected in your school.

Number 3, visitor's and color belt students will be impressed that a black belt from another school/system is interested in learning from you.

If you cross rank someone, it will backfire on you. Because students and visitors will see a black belt in your school that dosent know your system. Makes the quality of your instruction and promotions look kinda low.

 

[MichiganTKD]

If someone has put in the time and effort to reach black belt in another system, I respect that they are a black belt in, say, karate, kenpo, aikido etc. However, once you make the decision to come to my school and train under me, the fact that you are a karate black belt is irrelevant. You are not a karate black belt in my class, and you are certainly not an honorary black belt in my organization. You are a white belt and will be treated as such. You will not wear your style's uniform in my class, nor will you wear your old patch. You will wear our uniform, a white belt, and our patch. You start again. A captain in the Army is not a captain in the Marines. The two are separate. They respect each other, but they are not the same.
If I tried to wear my Tae Kwon Do uniform and belt in aikido, I would be insulting the aikido students and Instructor. I would certainly not be allowed to practice until I changed into the aikido uniform. It doesn't matter what level black belt I am. They respect it, but it is irrelevant to their class.

 

[TigerWoman]

...You are not a karate black belt in my class, and you are certainly not an honorary black belt in my organization. You are a white belt and will be treated as such. You will not wear your style's uniform in my class, nor will you wear your old patch. You will wear our uniform, a white belt, and our patch. You start again...

That is the way it is in our school as well. Anyone with Kenpo, Karate, Aikido or whatever would have to start over as a white belt in TKD. And we have a time-in requirement, two months to yellow etc. although you can double promote up to blue. Only our uniform is worn, with our logo on the back, none other. Because when you join our school, that student trains at our school, and represents our school at tournaments and demos. TW

 

[terryl965]

I cannot believe some of the responses with this issue, if you are a Black belt in karate that has nothing to do with TKD and vice versas. New style start over END OF STORY. Who would want a honorary black belt if you need one go buy it for $3.25 cents at your local Martial Art supply store. What a joke@!!!!!!!!!:erg::rofl:[img]http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif[/img][img]http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif[/img][img]http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif[/img][img]http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif[/img]

 

[lulflo]

I agree with some of the things posted here, Shesulsa has quite a bit of what I would have written. But I also think it could be in reference to a martial artist who has studied an all emcompassing art, of which most or all of another art's criteria is covered. May not be the same mix and match or combination of movements, but all the same kicks, punches, cuts, strikes, locks, techniques, etc are. Since it is above the black belt level where the real learning begins, if someone is established to a point that they would only be re-arranging the knowledge that they have, but not changing much if any, then it would make sense that someone could receive an HB. I don't know what my take personally would be given the choice to accept one, but if it was forced upon me, as I have noticed sometimes masters/teacher can be pretty, let's say, persuasive, then I would of course continue to learn all the information so I could earn that black belt the hard way as well.

Farang - Larry

 

[Danjo]

My personal policy is if someone has put in the years of training to become a black belt, then I respect and acknowledge it.
I do not believe in "cross ranking", but they are welcome to wear their black belt along with the patch and uniform of the system they hold a blackbelt in.
Once they learn the Kajukenbo requirements they are welcome to test for a blackbelt in Kajukenbo. Then they can wear a Kajukenbo uniform, patch, with a black belt.

This has 3 advantages.
Number 1, you don't comprimize you ethics by cross ranking.

Number 2, you make the black belt feel respected in your school.

Number 3, visitor's and color belt students will be impressed that a black belt from another school/system is interested in learning from you.

If you cross rank someone, it will backfire on you. Because students and visitors will see a black belt in your school that dosent know your system. Makes the quality of your instruction and promotions look kinda low.

This is the same policy that Gene LeBell has, as well as others. Even my old Shotokan instructor let a TKD guy wear his rank and uniform when he worked out with us. He wasn't considered ranked in Shotokan (as we didn't have red belts), but he was allowed to workout with the advanced students. He didn't stick around long enough to test. The idea was that at the basic level, he was not a white belt. He could punch, kick (really well), and move like an advanced student, so putting him with rank beginners (not to mention "treating him as such") would have been pointless.

 

[James Kovacich]

I think John Bishops policy is the best I've heard. I sought advice from Hanshi about this very situation because I had a TKD blackbelt come to me with 12 years experience from Choi's Tae Kwon Do, a respectable school that goes way back.

Hanshi told me to "reognize" his black belt (in other words he left it up to me if he should wear a black belt) but don't certify him until he knows my system at a black belt level.

 

[shane23ss]

My personal policy is if someone has put in the years of training to become a black belt, then I respect and acknowledge it.
I do not believe in "cross ranking", but they are welcome to wear their black belt along with the patch and uniform of the system they hold a blackbelt in.
Once they learn the Kajukenbo requirements they are welcome to test for a blackbelt in Kajukenbo. Then they can wear a Kajukenbo uniform, patch, with a black belt.

This has 3 advantages.
Number 1, you don't comprimize you ethics by cross ranking.

Number 2, you make the black belt feel respected in your school.

Number 3, visitor's and color belt students will be impressed that a black belt from another school/system is interested in learning from you.

If you cross rank someone, it will backfire on you. Because students and visitors will see a black belt in your school that dosent know your system. Makes the quality of your instruction and promotions look kinda low.

Great answer Sir, and I agree completely.

 

[masherdong]

I like that answer too.

 

[Drac]

Honorary Black Belts means nothing absolutely nothing. You might have well brought it on E-bay or at your local MA store...

That about says it all...

 

[masherdong]

Lot of opinions about Honorary Black Belts. Good! Let's hear more!

 

[The Kai]

How would you feel if the police gave out Honorary Badges, or the Marianes would let you dress out in full dress blues??