What is "American Ninjutsu"

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sojobow

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Enson said:
if that is the case why would hatsumi let the book be written in such a manner. he would have to give hayes permission to write a book in his name. weird, no?
It is not the case at all. They are giving you incorrect information. Here is something that may help. Watch out for the twist and turns though. It's like someone writing a book about Abraham Lincoln. They include the Gettsburg Address in their book and we get an arguement that the writer of the book wrote the Gettsburg Address and not Lincoln. It was Lincoln stating 4 score - 7 years ago....... It was Masaaki Hatsumi, Soke of Toga....Ryu Ninjutsu, who defines what Ninjutsu is to his Ryu and its students. If his students don't want to accept his writings, so be it. Ask them if Masaaki Hatsumi receives Royalties from the book. Ask them if all this debate keeps going on because sojobow quoted their Soke.

The words of the insert are those of Masaaki Hatsumi.
http://japanbookplaza.com.au/shop/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/263/products_id/590
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews19872.html
http://www.ukmao.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=500-105
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0865680272/104-4388744-9055901?v=glance

Books by Masaaki Hatsumi:
Essence of Ninjutsu
The Grandmaster's Book of Ninja Training
Stick Fighting
Books by Stephen Hayes:
The Mystic Arts of the Ninja
Ninjutsu
Secrets from the Ninja Grandmaster: Revised and Updated Edition.
Guess which ones by Stephen Hayes were Co-authored by Masaaki Hatsumi?
 

Don Roley

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sojobow said:
It is not the case at all. They are giving you incorrect information.

Nope. The fact that Hayes took some stuff that Hatsumi had written in Japanese from various books, added in some stuff he thought would be needed for a western audience and gave total credit to Hatsumi is well known. There are a lot of things that can be found in the book that are not found in any Japanese book by Hatsumi.

Hayes tried the best he could with the knowledge he had almost a quarter century ago. He honestly thought that what he wrote was just enough for non-Japanese to understand what was going on. There have been debates over this for many, many years.

And this is all besides the point that the meaning you are trying to put into the section being debated is not what anyone else would, or has so far.
 

sojobow

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Don Roley said:
And again I will point out that the book says that what the ninja did was known as ninjutsu- it was not a definition as you are trying to portray it as.

Here is the quote,

Quote:
As the passage of time continued to unfold the fabric of Japans history, the ninja and their ways of accomplishment, known as Ninjutsu, were always present behind the scenes of all the eras to ensure the survival and independence of their families and lands.


Now, you take that to 99 percent of the population and ask them if that means that ninjutsu is the study of things AS THEY WERE DONE and they will say no. The correct definition would be that there were a group and they were called ninja. And the stuff they did was called ninjutsu. .
Then 99 percent of the population will also fail English. Because the two phrases are separated by a comma (,), the phrases can be grammatically transposed but the sentence will still be structurally correct.

Example:

Sentence phrases as written;

"....., the ninja and their ways of accomplishment, known as Ninjutsu,"

Phrases transposed:

".....Known as Ninjutsu, the ninja and their ways of accomplishment,..."

written with the same words for Grammar:

Ninjutsu: the ninja and their ways of accomplishment.

Think we're just beating this dead horse for no apparent reason. Just let it go. You're in Japan and another of his students is apparently on his way. Why don't the both of you just ask Masaaki Hatsumi. (But don't say sojobow sent you :) ). You're teaching English to the Japanese so we'd think you knew this already :idunno:
 

Don Roley

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sojobow said:
You're in Japan and another of his students is apparently on his way. Why don't the both of you just ask Masaaki Hatsumi. (But don't say sojobow sent you :) ). You're teaching English to the Japanese so we'd think you knew this already :idunno:

Well, since you want to try to confuse the issue with grammer rules and all that, let us just cut to the chase.

As a teacher of English and a student in Japan of ninjutsu in Hatsumi's orginization, I know that the definition you are trying to promote is incorrect.

If you really want to let the matter rest as you say, instead of trying to get me to shut up, then don't respond and let it rest. If you respond in any way, you will prove you merely are trying to get the last word in and get your definition accepted. Kind of like an Itachi no Pe.
 

sojobow

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Don Roley said:
There have been debates over this for many, many years.

And this is all besides the point that the meaning you are trying to put into the section being debated is not what anyone else would, or has so far.
I think the debate should be taken up with the Publishers and not me. Most books have a title page which identifies the Title, Author(s), Publisher(s), Copywrite Date(s), Library of Congress index numbers. The listed Publisher(s) pays the listed Author(s). It is also apparent that the same phrase is listed in more than one book. No need of debating me, just open the books to the Title Page(s). If both gentlemen are cashing checks from the Publishers, its all good too.

The Authors don't seem to be debating so why should we?

Also, knowing it would sink ships around here, I doubt very seriously if Kaith would insert anything presented by at least two people - one currently present and one never present but constantly named. Too dangerous.
 

Don Roley

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sojobow said:
Think we're just beating this dead horse for no apparent reason. Just let it go.

Don Roley said:
If you really want to let the matter rest as you say, instead of trying to get me to shut up, then don't respond and let it rest. If you respond in any way, you will prove you merely are trying to get the last word in and get your definition accepted. Kind of like an Itachi no Pe.

Yet still it goes on.

Oh, and if you want to lecture people about grammer, you had bettter see what is missing from the beggining of your quote above.
 

sojobow

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Don Roley said:
As a teacher of English and a student in Japan of ninjutsu in Hatsumi's orginization, I know that the definition you are trying to promote is incorrect.
If the definition I presented is incorrect and, as you know that the definition is incorrect because you're in Japan, simply share with us the correct definition that you must then know and the discussion ends with your well documented definition.

.....instead of trying to get me to shut up, ....
Now that would be a miracle, as well as an impossibility, on my part. Note the use of the comma(,) Rearrange the phrases. They will still say the exact same thing.

Now you know I don't speak Japanese. Is this another of those Japanese Pies discussed before? We speak English in this Section. A stick is a Stick.

Just a thought. Since at least 3 of the 10 Hatsumi Sensei schools contain some element of Ninjutsu within their curriculums, is the definition handed down to Hatsumi Sensei different in each of these schools or are they the same? Just a thought. Please show us the definitions (if available). Very interested.
 

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sojobow said:
I think I may have asked more than once before but have yet to be presented with the information.
I have read just about all of the information you have linked us to. I have noted such written Policies as:
General Rules, More specific policies, terms of usage, etc.. You do have written Policies such as:
Account Policy
Avatar Policy
Image Posting Policy
Complaint Policy:
Copyrighted Material/Content Policy
Signature Policy
and others.
However, I'd really like to read what a "Sniping Policy" is defined as. Maybe I just keep missing it. Please cut and paste it here for me. I keep getting bounced but never actually know why.
http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=sniping
Main Entry: 2snipe
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): sniped; snip繚ing
1 : to shoot at exposed individuals (as of an enemy's forces) from a usually concealed point of vantage
2 : to aim a carping or snide attack

Is that plain enough?
Seig
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