"What if" Monkeys

[Trent]

How do you, or your instructor, deal with "What if" Monkeys?

Those people who go on ad nauseum about potential imaginary counters or environments which they believe would thwart your answer to whatever physical problem is being currently addressed.

I.e., "What if the attacker does this?" or "What if they are so strong that...." and my least favorite, "What if they don't attack like that?"

It's annoying, shows lack of respect with such frivolous questions by challenging the instruction without even knowing what is going on, and eats up class time for others who don't constantly challenge the curriculum by asking questions that show a complete lack of understanding of physical dynamics and training in general, but specifically the art you attempting to pass on.

I know how I generally do it, and I've seen other personalities and instructors handle it, but would like some different input.

Again, I'm not talking about appropriate questions about the movement or method of training, that is healthy and I enjoy those, but I'm asking about "What if" Monkeys in particular.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

So far (knock on wood) I've managed to nip the what if's in the bud. Usually the first one I get from a new student I'll have him do what he what ifed about to me and have a good demonstration for the rest of the class. That usually cuts down on that.

Jeff

 

[Sukerkin]

My iaido sensei used to have a banner on the wall of the dojo (back in the days when he used to rent a hall to teach karate and judo) that read "We do something else".

His answer to the 'what if' monkeys was to point to it :lol:.

 

[CuongNhuka]

The Cuong Nhu style has an intresting way of dealing with these monkeys.
Method one: shut up and train! If perstists, push ups.

Method two: at the end of class play a game of "What If?". Rules: for every question a student asks, the intrsustor gets to ask one.

Example of of a game of a "What If". What if someone grabbs your belt, like they're trying to pick you up? Answer: stick you finger in the base of his neck and push back. What if someone swings a nunchaku at you? Still not sure what to do with this one (I just made it up)

This game (by the way) was created as a way to make students think out of the box. Oh, if you getted stumped, you have to find the answer ASAP. This is also a good way to come up with applications to forms and odd movements.

 

[stone_dragone]

this is a question that I am met with frequently. I have several answers, depending on the "what if?" being asked.

More often than not I indicate that we'd change it up a bit and remind the students that none of these techniques are expected to occur in a vacuum; they are dependent on the victim...err, attacker.

Sometimes I get a more beligerant questioner who tries to show me that what I am teaching won't work or that I am obviously unqualified to teach him. Thats where my warning comes in play..."If you make me make it work, it's going to work and you aren't going to like it."

It is always best for the learning stage to be a good training partner. Resistance is good - and required - once you have the basic mechanics learned.

 

[charyuop]

As a student I am full of "what if" questions, but I have never asked a single one. As a student I am sure that with time Sensei will provide me with the answers not by telling me what to do, but teaching me what to do.
In Aikido you see often in videos people taking away a knife from the attacker and I have always wondered...."yea, but what if the attacker can use the knife and won't come to you with a single thrust, but using the knife as it should be done (keeping it in movement with sharp and quick hits)".
Well yesterday that "what if" of mine was answered (kinda), I saw Sensei taking away the knife from the hand of Senpai who was attacking in a realistic way....even tho I didn't actually understand how he did it coz it all was too quick hee hee.

This is just an example to show that patience in students will provide answers more satisfactory than an answer given to an out of place question.

 

[Kacey]

Serious students who ask "what if" are trying to learn, and my answer will either be "because... [fill in response]" or "now is not the time". Occasionally it will be "Uh... hmm... that's a good one; I'll get back to you" and then I'll go research it and get back to them.

Non-serious students - those who are trying to disrupt class or waste time - will get other responses, generally in the following sequence: "I'm not teaching that now" (sometimes I skip this one; it depends on the student and the question); "Try it and see" (this stops most of them... after the first time, too); "Go do 20 push-ups for interrupting class"; "Go sit out the rest of class" (only if the push-ups don't work... very rare).

Students who really annoy me get to go try things on my assistant instructor; his training in England is enough different than mine (although still Ch'ang H'on TKD) that he does things I don't teach in class or teach differently, which is enough to really catch their attention when he does it to them... and then they usually learn not to ask spurious questions.

 

[jks9199]

Serious students who ask "what if" are trying to learn, and my answer will either be "because... [fill in response]" or "now is not the time". Occasionally it will be "Uh... hmm... that's a good one; I'll get back to you" and then I'll go research it and get back to them.

Non-serious students - those who are trying to disrupt class or waste time - will get other responses, generally in the following sequence: "I'm not teaching that now" (sometimes I skip this one; it depends on the student and the question); "Try it and see" (this stops most of them... after the first time, too); "Go do 20 push-ups for interrupting class"; "Go sit out the rest of class" (only if the push-ups don't work... very rare).

Students who really annoy me get to go try things on my assistant instructor; his training in England is enough different than mine (although still Ch'ang H'on TKD) that he does things I don't teach in class or teach differently, which is enough to really catch their attention when he does it to them... and then they usually learn not to ask spurious questions.

I do similar things...

If the question is reasonable, I'll address it. When the student is over-analyzing, or just plain being a pain in the butt about it (I'm currently teaching a lot of teenagers; being a pain in the butt seems to have become a class requirement!) -- I'll either tell them some version of "shut up & train" or "what color is my belt? Since it's black, and yours isn't, we'll do it my way", or I'll allow them to try their brilliant idea...

Of course, sometimes, I gotta watch myself and not let a question pull me off topic!

 

[Rich Parsons]

So far (knock on wood) I've managed to nip the what if's in the bud. Usually the first one I get from a new student I'll have him do what he what ifed about to me and have a good demonstration for the rest of the class. That usually cuts down on that.

Jeff

As others have mentioned there are various ways to handle this depending upon the student their approach.

If it is relavent to the discussion/lecture then I expond upon it. I show them and I always touch them while showing them. i.e. demonstration on person not in air. Once they see that some of the stuff they are asking about are nullified by proper body position or mechanics most stop the rambles and only ask the serious what if's.

But ever now and then, it is hard to explain, and the student jsut has to do it and feel it and then their understanding of the verbal/visual can be processed and they can learn. Yet there are some that just do not want to stop they want to ask and ask and ask instead of just do for a while. So I tell them I will answer their question in lots of detail if they can answer my questions. What is 1 + 1 ? They always say two (2). I then ask WHY? They look confused, and some even say, "Well becuase it is." Most get my point at this time. If not then I explain to them that sometimes one has to do something a whole bunch of times to understand a principal/rule and then later they prove how it works once they have a foundation.

 

[Callandor]

I haven't heard a classmate or anybody else act like a "what if" monkey. However, the response would probably depend on whether the question is made by someone with a sincere desire to know or learn, or whether it is made a some person who thinks himself a wise guy with an attitude that goes like: "Oh yeah, what if...".

The range of answers to cover the above spectrum of students (serious, not-so-serious, ..., wise guy - 1, wise guy) would be from mild to mean.

On the milder end, it could go something like: "Work on your front kick first with this easy and common application before we go on to more challenging situations." On the meaner end, you could say: "Show me all you've got, smart-S..." (then do a shinku-hadouken :ultracool).

 

[Andrew Green]

Let them try it

 

[MJS]

How do you, or your instructor, deal with "What if" Monkeys?

Those people who go on ad nauseum about potential imaginary counters or environments which they believe would thwart your answer to whatever physical problem is being currently addressed.

I.e., "What if the attacker does this?" or "What if they are so strong that...." and my least favorite, "What if they don't attack like that?"

It's annoying, shows lack of respect with such frivolous questions by challenging the instruction without even knowing what is going on, and eats up class time for others who don't constantly challenge the curriculum by asking questions that show a complete lack of understanding of physical dynamics and training in general, but specifically the art you attempting to pass on.

I know how I generally do it, and I've seen other personalities and instructors handle it, but would like some different input.

Again, I'm not talking about appropriate questions about the movement or method of training, that is healthy and I enjoy those, but I'm asking about "What if" Monkeys in particular.

Kacey and Jks made some great points. I too, have had many people do this. IMHO, the student should worry about getting the fundamentals of the base technique down first, and then worry about the "What ifs." Due to time limits and the class plan, it may not be possible to address every what if, but I'd do my best to accomodate. There were times when I'd try to set aside a few minutes during class time to address any questions. And there were times when I'd tell anyone who had more questions to see me after class and I'd work with them.

Mike

 

[Jade Tigress]

My training partner is a *what if monkey* of sorts with me. I can't do anything without him *what iffing* me. I'm not the instructor. I don't ****ing know, however, what I just did worked on you.

 

[IWishToLearn]

I have a couple of students who are very bright intellectually speaking, and they are always looking at whatever we're doing critically, so they come up with a lot of "what ifs". I encourage exploration of this manner - I don't teach in a commercial school environment, so I truly do have the luxury of taking as much time as I need to get the material across that I want to get across. Whenever it gets excessive I simply challenge them to ask what they want to know EXTREMELY specifically. And I keep redirecting for ever-increasingly specific questions to really get to the heart of what they're "what if"ing about. Usually that results in the rest of the students laughing their butts off while the one who just dug the hole, stepped in it, kept digging until they were throwing dirt on themself, and wound up burying themself in the hole before they realize they already knew the answer to what they were asking - and I have a specific enough question I can answer with "yes" or "no". This process usually only has to happen once or twice before the student quits the "what if" game and starts asking legit "in this application, if this were to occur, how would it affect my structure and what can I do to compensate for it" questions.

Great topic.

 

[kidswarrior]

As others have mentioned there are various ways to handle this depending upon the student their approach.

If it is relavent to the discussion/lecture then I expond upon it. I show them and I always touch them while showing them. i.e. demonstration on person not in air. Once they see that some of the stuff they are asking about are nullified by proper body position or mechanics most stop the rambles and only ask the serious what if's.

Good approach. I use this too, and actually find I sometimes even learn a new application for an old body mechanics principle. Often this is when I say, Well, let's see how it would work (and have someone do it on me). This can lead to some pretty good Aha! moments.

But ever now and then, it is hard to explain, and the student jsut has to do it and feel it and then their understanding of the verbal/visual can be processed and they can learn. Yet there are some that just do not want to stop they want to ask and ask and ask instead of just do for a while. So I tell them I will answer their question in lots of detail if they can answer my questions. What is 1 + 1 ? They always say two (2). I then ask WHY? They look confused, and some even say, "Well becuase it is." Most get my point at this time.

This is great. Like Jks, I teach a lot of teens--actually, it's my day job, too--so am pretty well-versed in such professional psychological conditions as 'Obnoxious', 'Being 15 years old', etc. I'm going to use this comeback for all the non-serious questions from now on.

 

[kidswarrior]

My training partner is a *what if monkey* ..., however, what I just did worked on you.

Nuff said. Or, you could say, Wanna see it again? And again? And once more? Are you and the wall (my fist, combat slap, whatever) well-enough acquainted yet? :lfao:

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Not going off topic, bear with me. I think there are dojo's that are businesses and dojo's that aren't. Not to say that because it's a business that it's a mcdojo, but a business has to make a profit, and so is much less advised to be harsh to the disrespectful (unless they're doing well enough for themselves). I have a two disrespectful action rule. One warning, one expulsion. I think this is much more difficult for schools that need the money but if you're teaching,say, from a garage or basement and you have an income independant of teaching the MA, I feel there is 0 room for disrespect. A joke's a joke and I'm tolerant of that but wasting time is something I abhor, like wasting food. The "what if's" are good but anthing can happen in any way so we train techniques apropriate for the more likely scenario. If someone is trying to prove their sensei wrong, it's a very ugly thing. Any REAL sensei had to work his tail off to get where he is under constant scrutiny and tangible developement of skill. Usually there are some students more serious than others but the ones who waste class time for everyone are easy to spot, IMO. Once spotted, I beleive the term is to "discard what is useless" because most of the students are there to learn, not disprove. Some of the questions I've heard have been ridiculous. I feel sorry for a school that requires the income of these "troublemakers", and don't hold it against them for teaching, as most of them would try to curb this behavior.

 

[jks9199]

My training partner is a *what if monkey* of sorts with me. I can't do anything without him *what iffing* me. I'm not the instructor. I don't ****ing know, however, what I just did worked on you.

A training partner causing problems with "what ifs" between the two of you can be a very different problem; you can end up so tied up with the diversions that you don't train what you're supposed to. In a case like that, I usually just "remind" the partner that the instructor said do "this", and we need to get "this" right before we change it.

 

[Balrog]

So I tell them I will answer their question in lots of detail if they can answer my questions. What is 1 + 1 ? They always say two (2). I then ask WHY? They look confused, and some even say, "Well becuase it is." Most get my point at this time. If not then I explain to them that sometimes one has to do something a whole bunch of times to understand a principal/rule and then later they prove how it works once they have a foundation.

HAH! Thank you - I have just added a new weapon to my teaching arsenal!

 

[Drac]

Got that in the police academy a few times..I dropped a couple of "what-ifers" on their butts and didn't get anymore stupid questions for the rest of that session..