What do you do if someone runs at you with punches?

JowGaWolf

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I can't get enough Mike Tyson in his prime training videos. The ones where he's with with Teddy Atlas and/or Kevin Rooney. After he fired those guys, he stood up straight, effectively turning him into a punching bag for anyone who was any good.

But the real point of my post... notice how many times he's in horse stance? Modified front leaning stance? We call that one suri ashi dachi and use quite it often in Seido.

And some people think the karate stances are a waste of time.
his stance is how he was able to deliver the power that he had. Most people know him for that power but he had solid footwork and strong stances
 

JP3

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Morote-gari is your friend.
Yep. As is Ipponseoinage, harai makikomi, hiza guruma/sasae tsurikomi goshi depending on the flavor of the instant.

Note how almost all the responses start out with something like, "Get out o the way?" If they really are literally running at you and bringing the flailing, it IS easy to simply step aside, now they've got to deal with the problem of decelerating, changing direction, then reaccelerating in your new direction... all while their flank or rear is exposed to... pick something.

The judo throws above you'd have to learn to make work on a charging opponent, but that's a simple task (not easy, simple. There's a difference.) You get out of the way by dropping below the opponent's attack and their momentum literally causes them to throw themselves... you mearly become a fulcrum. If you're being nice. If not, you can be a jet-assist fulcrum.

Personally, if they initiated by the charging, swinging attack, I'm not going to let them get away and just do that again, as anyone can get caught. If I turned their momentum advantage into a disadvantage, I'm going to press it home, right into their side (side of head, neck, kidney, hip socket, knee or ankle) right there, right when I've slipped them if able to do so.
 

JR 137

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his stance is how he was able to deliver the power that he had. Most people know him for that power but he had solid footwork and strong stances

Tyson is like Michael Jordan in a sense - everyone remembers those spectacular dunks and fade-away jumpers. They forget that he always put himself in the right place at the right time by reading the opposition, anticipating correctly, and reacting at the right time.

Tyson wouldn't have been able to unload those bombs had he not put himself in the right place at the right time. His footwork and head/torso movement put him at the perfect angle to deliver clean punches, all while making him a very difficult target. The way he moved, it was pretty hard to tell his defense from his offense.

It's too bad he forgot this. After D'Amato and Abrams (his original promoter) died, he surrounded himself with yes-men. Teddy Atlas and Kevin Rooney told him what he needed to hear, not what he wanted to hear; so they were fired.

He knew he could knock anyone out with one punch, but he forgot he had to set up that punch. He stopped moving, stood up straight, and looked for the homerun swing. His angles of attack that really made him who he was became pretty much non-existent.

He forgot he actually had to train. It's reported that trained a total of 3 days for the Buster Douglas fight.

If Tyson kept his work ethic and training style throughout his career, he'd easily be in the conversation of the best of all time. Just my opinion.
 

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frank raud

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Yep. As is Ipponseoinage, harai makikomi, hiza guruma/sasae tsurikomi goshi depending on the flavor of the instant.

Note how almost all the responses start out with something like, "Get out o the way?" If they really are literally running at you and bringing the flailing, it IS easy to simply step aside, now they've got to deal with the problem of decelerating, changing direction, then reaccelerating in your new direction... all while their flank or rear is exposed to... pick something.

The judo throws above you'd have to learn to make work on a charging opponent, but that's a simple task (not easy, simple. There's a difference.) You get out of the way by dropping below the opponent's attack and their momentum literally causes them to throw themselves... you mearly become a fulcrum. If you're being nice. If not, you can be a jet-assist fulcrum.

Personally, if they initiated by the charging, swinging attack, I'm not going to let them get away and just do that again, as anyone can get caught. If I turned their momentum advantage into a disadvantage, I'm going to press it home, right into their side (side of head, neck, kidney, hip socket, knee or ankle) right there, right when I've slipped them if able to do so.
I intentionally chose Morote-gari over other throws as it does not involve controlling an arm prior to the throw, making the ability to capture a flailing(punching) arm a moot point. Heck if you could time it, Kani-basami would work.
 

wingerjim

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Hello! I織ve been doing Martial Arts for around 3-4 Years and for the past few months I織ve been doing Muay Thai. What I織ve never learned is what you do if someone comes at you with swinging, wild punches. I織ve tried to google and youtube it but nothing seems to work the way it should. What do you guys think is the best things to do? I told my friend to come at me with swinging punches (with gloves obv) I tried to clinch but that didn't work out so well. What I think is the best thing to do it step to the side if you have enough space and attack. What do you think you can do more?
Deflect their energy and use it against them by getting them off balance. Almost all arts teach us to take advantage of someone off balance, my art Wing Chun does just that to be able to capitalize on this advantage.
 

Balrog

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Hello! I織ve been doing Martial Arts for around 3-4 Years and for the past few months I織ve been doing Muay Thai. What I織ve never learned is what you do if someone comes at you with swinging, wild punches.
A defensive side kick to the midsection or upper thigh will completely ruin the guy's entire day.
 

KangTsai

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That's the single easiest scenario to deal with. I prefer to slip and pound the crap out of the body followed by a kick, or shoot. Depends what I feel like.
 

JP3

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I intentionally chose Morote-gari over other throws as it does not involve controlling an arm prior to the throw, making the ability to capture a flailing(punching) arm a moot point. Heck if you could time it, Kani-basami would work.

Frank... you'd not use a banned technique against some idiot running at you with punches, would ya? Say it isn't so...

I know, that's not what you meant. But, pulling Kani-basami out of the bag like that just begged for the joke.


But,... I have to ask. Morote-gari? You critique the examples of techniques which to my mind are designed to take a charging opponent and let him go for the ride of his... er... life, and you'd use the two-hand reap? Meaning, you'd crouch down, in front of the guy who is running at you, and try to get running feet instead? Sounds like a semantics style statement. Unless I'm missing a sarcasm button or something. Which... I might be. Was in Cancun with wife-unit last week and lost a few more brain cells and am perhaps below the threshold necessary.

Personally, I don't duck if my feet can move. Ducks get shot (old karate instructo's favorite sparring session clich矇 to utter).
 

drop bear

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Frank... you'd not use a banned technique against some idiot running at you with punches, would ya? Say it isn't so...

I know, that's not what you meant. But, pulling Kani-basami out of the bag like that just begged for the joke.


But,... I have to ask. Morote-gari? You critique the examples of techniques which to my mind are designed to take a charging opponent and let him go for the ride of his... er... life, and you'd use the two-hand reap? Meaning, you'd crouch down, in front of the guy who is running at you, and try to get running feet instead? Sounds like a semantics style statement. Unless I'm missing a sarcasm button or something. Which... I might be. Was in Cancun with wife-unit last week and lost a few more brain cells and am perhaps below the threshold necessary.

Personally, I don't duck if my feet can move. Ducks get shot (old karate instructo's favorite sparring session clich矇 to utter).

All of rugby disagrees with you.
 

frank raud

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Frank... you'd not use a banned technique against some idiot running at you with punches, would ya? Say it isn't so...

I know, that's not what you meant. But, pulling Kani-basami out of the bag like that just begged for the joke.


But,... I have to ask. Morote-gari? You critique the examples of techniques which to my mind are designed to take a charging opponent and let him go for the ride of his... er... life, and you'd use the two-hand reap? Meaning, you'd crouch down, in front of the guy who is running at you, and try to get running feet instead? Sounds like a semantics style statement. Unless I'm missing a sarcasm button or something. Which... I might be. Was in Cancun with wife-unit last week and lost a few more brain cells and am perhaps below the threshold necessary.

Personally, I don't duck if my feet can move. Ducks get shot (old karate instructo's favorite sparring session clich矇 to utter).
Well, as my first suggestion was a banned technique, I was thinking for consistency...... besides if he's throwing windmill punches, aint no ref going to give me hansoku-make. I figure if someone is throwing windmill punches with any force, it is harder to time the grab of the arm for kuzushi than to throw your shoulder into stomach/hip area and grab the legs. Works in football and rugby all the time.
In jiu jitsu, used to do a technique we called an airplane throw, essentially a hip throw without grabbing the arms or controlling the hips. Only worked on someone running at you. But as the OP was asking for what he could do, I would still recommend morote-gari. Your mileage may vary.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Yesterday in my Sunday class, we drilled this "rhino guard" when your opponent runs toward you and tried to knock your head off. You then aim your "rhino guard" between his arms, right at his face, and run toward him with full speed. That was an interested training.

 
D

Dylan9d

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Hello! I織ve been doing Martial Arts for around 3-4 Years and for the past few months I織ve been doing Muay Thai. What I織ve never learned is what you do if someone comes at you with swinging, wild punches. I織ve tried to google and youtube it but nothing seems to work the way it should. What do you guys think is the best things to do? I told my friend to come at me with swinging punches (with gloves obv) I tried to clinch but that didn't work out so well. What I think is the best thing to do it step to the side if you have enough space and attack. What do you think you can do more?

Run the other way ?
 

JP3

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Ahh I got it now. Two leg shoot, driving takedown, front tackle from Rugby or Football. I gotcha.

Might look sorta like morote gari, but ain't. Morote-gari is classified as Te-waza for a reason, it's done with hands. Well, when done properly, it is. There is no shoulder drive into the belly and pounding drive witht he legs forcing the issue.

Problem is, Morote-gari is HARD to do right, so it almost always looks like a technically-correct tackle. I get it now. Yep, Drop, all of rugby would disagree.... or at least 99.89% because there may be 0.11% who do and know judo done correct. Still doesn't mean those dudes to a correct Morote-gari on the pitch, they blow the dude up, as well they should.
 

drop bear

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Ahh I got it now. Two leg shoot, driving takedown, front tackle from Rugby or Football. I gotcha.

Might look sorta like morote gari, but ain't. Morote-gari is classified as Te-waza for a reason, it's done with hands. Well, when done properly, it is. There is no shoulder drive into the belly and pounding drive witht he legs forcing the issue.

Problem is, Morote-gari is HARD to do right, so it almost always looks like a technically-correct tackle. I get it now. Yep, Drop, all of rugby would disagree.... or at least 99.89% because there may be 0.11% who do and know judo done correct. Still doesn't mean those dudes to a correct Morote-gari on the pitch, they blow the dude up, as well they should.

Ok. so the difference is?


 

JP3

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Ok. so the difference is?



Drop, I can't see your attached examples, but analyze them through the following prism: it's in the name. Gari, i.e. "reap," Technically-correct, principle-driven judo reaping actions are when the foot/leg has no or very little weight on it. The whole maximum-efficiency thing.

A properly done front leg sweep, De Ashi Barai, or traditional Osoto-gari (or any of the other gari entry variations) is done as the uke's weight is stepping down into the mat but has yet to settle, or right as their leg is lifting out of the mat, in both instances, very little weight still in place with down vector, normal force/gravity combining with friction to hold foot in place on the surface.

One can, of course, blast with power through a leg with weight on it, and many, many people do and lots of them have won up to Olympic contests with this type of Osoto (Yasuhiro Yamashita, most notable... man was a beast). Still, even yamashita sensei indicates in his Fighting Spirit book that this is technically incorrect, though effective. Perfect vs. Practical, as Gerry also understands it. The below is an aargument best viewed as "Perfect is the Enemy of Good Enough."

Morote-gari is classified as a hand technique, the primary throwing is done with the hands, gripping the legs/ankles and even the heel/foot if you happen to be low enough. You don't drive the guy backwards on stopped/stuck feet, you hook & lift the legs from the position you find yourself in, thus lifting uke enough to remove his feet/legs from beneath him and he drops/falls on his back. Wrestler's shoot, football rugby tackle, you are stopping uke in his tracks, and blowing his center back off of his feet. This latter, requiring a Lot more power to function is a less-efficient physics solution. Thing is... it's way hard to do, just like taiotoshi, also a "hand technique" is taught with the leg step across to block uke's step-off of the throw... but if you ... manage ... to hit it ... just right, you don't need the leg at all. In 22 years of judo I've managed to do taitoshi without the leg and get the gake right one, single time. Planet alignment with Jupiter in Saturn's pocket or some such luck, I am certain.

But, I see what Frank was driving at, now. Dude running and swinging haymakers, and if there's any groundwork background, why not drop and fire out, tackle the guy, wrap him up in a choke or armbar and handle it that way. As long as there's only the one bad guy and you don't mind get a bit of clothing mussed up, solid solution. Personally, I'm still a fan of out of the way and send him on his...
 

drop bear

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If you are relying on your friends to jump in and throw head kicks at the guy on the ground in some sort of effort to save you.

You would want them to be pretty quick.
 
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