What about biting,pinching and eye qouging?

[still learning]

Hello, In a real fight most of us don't want to go to the ground (no rules) and if anybody else around us could join in (with or with some kind of weapon) being on the ground you become helpless if attack from someone who is standing above us. (he could be a friend or foe).

grapping teaches us locks and hold, but once grab...should we bit and eye gouge as soon as we can? groin attacks? keep strikeing?

What would you do? stay down and grapple or try to get up as soon as possible? What should we do in a real fight?

 

[rutherford]

In a real fight where only you and your attackers are involved there should be only one goal: survive.

Personally, I'm not a biter. Well, I am, but only with the ladies. With folks I don't know and probably don't like, I'd rather not put anything into my mouth, especially not their blood. So, it would have to be the last thing left before I tried it. But, I'd do it without hesitation. Dan Inosanto and others train in bites. I've had no training in applying my teeth.

Eye gouges are another matter. My preferred strike to the face is an open hand followed by a grab and tear as I pull back. A thumb to the eye is extremely common in free grappling in my training group. We just set it there so we both know about the opening, and then continue with safer play.

But again, a real fight isn't play. If I can't kill or disable you FAST I'm going to run even faster.

 

[silatman]

You can bite, gouge and groin strike just as easy from stand up.
If the fight is on and its a "real" fight then its win at all costs, take what you can get when you can get it but as above the last thing I would want is to bite some filthy guy on the street, but if thats all there is, no hesitation.
I'll take some disease over death if thats the choice.

 

[MJS]

Hello, In a real fight most of us don't want to go to the ground (no rules) and if anybody else around us could join in (with or with some kind of weapon) being on the ground you become helpless if attack from someone who is standing above us. (he could be a friend or foe).

grapping teaches us locks and hold, but once grab...should we bit and eye gouge as soon as we can? groin attacks? keep strikeing?

What would you do? stay down and grapple or try to get up as soon as possible? What should we do in a real fight?

Getting back to my feet is certianly going to be my main goal. Take advantage of whatever is available at the time...bite, pinch, gouge..whatever it takes. As far as biting goes, I certainly don't want someones blood in my mouth, but as a last resort, I'd do it. Some people say that biting is not that effective. However, like rutherford said, Dan Inosanto, Vunak and others train how to bite. Its really an art in itself.

Mike

 

[nhbSDMF]

Bite, pinch, gouge, rake, stomp, do whatever it takes in a real fight. You have no idea what the other person (or their friends) are capable of so end the fight quickly and get away.

 

[MA-Caver]

Bite, pinch, gouge, rake, stomp, do whatever it takes in a real fight. You have no idea what the other person (or their friends) are capable of so end the fight quickly and get away.

I'll go with that and go as far as to repeat something that my oldest brother taught me.... "There's no such thing as a fair fight!"
As Martialists we train to fight effectively, efficently, and so forth. But in the real world of street fight/combat we should do whatever it takes beyond our training to be the one left standing/moving away.
If for some reason our training has not produced the desired results (who really wants to use the word "failed"?? :idunno: not me ) then pick up that broken tree-limb, 2X4, bottle or whatever is handy and use it. If not readily available then like Malcom X ... "whatever means necessary." :asian:

Oh, and I'll bite and worry about aids/hiv later. Sounds foolish?... Well I had talked with a doctor, a hemotologist if you will about the subject of the virus transfer. He told me that the transfer is a bit more complicated than just simple bodily fluids being placed from one body to another. As an (verbal) example he said that he could cut his finger (deeply) and then cut me (anywhere) and place his finger in the wound ... (this is hypothetically saying that I was infected... which I'm not.... hey... where are ya'll going? I'm not done here yet :wink1: ) and even wiggle it around a bit to be sure to get a good mix going on, and he would have a 99.99% chance of NOT being infected because of it.
But that's a whole seperate subject entirely. Point is... do whatever it takes.

 

[Nanalo74]

Oh, and I'll bite and worry about aids/hiv later. Sounds foolish?... Well I had talked with a doctor, a hemotologist if you will about the subject of the virus transfer. He told me that the transfer is a bit more complicated than just simple bodily fluids being placed from one body to another. As an (verbal) example he said that he could cut his finger (deeply) and then cut me (anywhere) and place his finger in the wound ... (this is hypothetically saying that I was infected... which I'm not.... hey... where are ya'll going? I'm not done here yet :wink1: ) and even wiggle it around a bit to be sure to get a good mix going on, and he would have a 99.99% chance of NOT being infected because of it.
But that's a whole seperate subject entirely. Point is... do whatever it takes.

I work in the NYC Public School System and recently took a training with the Dept. of Health about HIV and STD transfer. Exposure does not mean infection. You'd have to swallow quite a bit of the person's blood in order to contract the virus. So unless you plan to drink your vanquished foe's blood, I think you'll be ok.

Do what it takes to get away and get home to your family. That's what I think.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com

 

[Drac]

Bite, pinch, gouge, rake, stomp, do whatever it takes in a real fight. You have no idea what the other person (or their friends) are capable of so end the fight quickly and get away.

Words of wisdom there..I tell the officers that I teach the same things. There are NO RULES in survival..Going home to your family at the end of your shift is #1 priority..If it take biting,pinching etc...etc.. then that's what I'll do..

 

[still learning]

Hello, Thank-you for you comments and thoughts, really enjoy reading them. I guess we all agree "Do what ever it takes to survive"!

Biting can be an art to it? .......Aloha

 

[Shaolinwind]

Hello, In a real fight most of us don't want to go to the ground (no rules) and if anybody else around us could join in (with or with some kind of weapon) being on the ground you become helpless if attack from someone who is standing above us. (he could be a friend or foe).

grapping teaches us locks and hold, but once grab...should we bit and eye gouge as soon as we can? groin attacks? keep strikeing?

What would you do? stay down and grapple or try to get up as soon as possible? What should we do in a real fight?

Dude, if serious injury is at risk and you lose your composure in a real fight due to inexperience or stress as many do, bite their face off. Pull their eyes out. Rend flesh. Who cares, just so long as you can get outta there unharmed. If you can't remember the form of the tiger then just be ferocious like the tiger, if you catch my drift.

Come to think of it the form of the tiger has an eye gouge in it, but it isn't while grappling.

 

[arnisador]

Biting can be an art to it?

Ah, the alleged Filipino martial art of 'Kino Muti'! I don't buy it.

 

[MJS]

Ah, the alleged Filipino martial art of 'Kino Muti'! I don't buy it.

What are your thoughts on this? In my post I mentioned Inosanto and Vunak and said 'its really an art in itself'. Now, what I meant by that was, rather than just taking a bite, IMO, you'll get better results if one understood, in a grappling position, where it would be more productive to apply that bite, etc. However, I've never heard of a school that solely teaches one just to bite.

Mike

 

[MA-Caver]

Dude, if serious injury is at risk and you lose your composure in a real fight due to inexperience or stress as many do, bite their face off. Pull their eyes out. Rend flesh. Who cares, just so long as you can get outta there unharmed. If you can't remember the form of the tiger then just be ferocious like the tiger, if you catch my drift.

Well presumably you're talking about last possible ditch efforts and your life would be bleeding out of you if you don't do something totally desperate at that moment. But even then... even then, remaining as calm as possible, being in control of yourself will still give you an advantage. Because I'll say it again: your mind is your greatest weapon. Use it... THINK! Going crazy and flailing all limbs and biting and scratching, yelling and screaming ... that will probably make them want to kill you that much faster. You've also allowed your fear to take rein of you and the situation.
Consider this; you get jumped by a couple of muggers, all they want is your money/watch/whatever of value. Your training puts you into a fighting situation and now these guys have to take you down so that they don't get hurt. So they'll gang up on you or do whatever and hurt you more than they originally intended.
Even crack-heads don't attack mindlessly. They got a plan (however screwed up, unrealistic and simple it may be) on how to get what they want from you. Panic causes mistakes and if those guys panic then they'll make mistakes and it (should) be to your advantage. If you panic then they have the advantage or their fear is heightened and they go beyond what they can control... themselves. There are probably a good number of guys sitting in prison for murder when all they intended was robbery.
A warrior stays in control of themselves at all times. If it comes to pinching, biting, eye-gouging and whatever else then the warrior (martialist) will do so with the full intent of creating hurt but knowing when to stop once the damage is done. Adrenialine is a great and terrible thing. Learning to control ourselves after the intial dump into our systems is what seperates a Martial Artist from the average street-fighter IMO.
An attacker has you pinned against a wall or on the ground in such a manner that you can't really do too much by way of MA techniques, then by all means, bite the sucker (draw blood), pinch, grab do whatever to get him away from you so that you can return to your MA fighting mode/stance and resume control over the fight under your terms. Going wild don't help nobody.
No maybe you didn't fight fairly but you did remain in control or resumed control of the fight.

 

[Drac]

Ah, the alleged Filipino martial art of 'Kino Muti'! I don't buy it.

I heard about an alleged art based on biting, I guess they were telling me the truth..

 

[arnisador]

I don't believe that there was a traditional art of 'Kino Muti' based om biting. But, I do believe there are better and worse times and ways to do it, and there's no reason not to think about it.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

grapping teaches us locks and hold, but once grab...should we bit and eye gouge as soon as we can? groin attacks? keep strikeing?

Yes. Bite, gouge, rip, tear.

Now, as to training this in class...

It might be exceptionally rude to do this in Brazilian jujitsu, and might alienate you to your training partners and instructor. SO...get a willing partner and put on your protective cups.

Role for position and submissions as you normally would, but insert groin grabs (yeah...grab the material over the cup...don't be shy) and place the fingers near the eyes and call it "eyes" when you clearly had a gouge ready to go.

For biting...you can actually practice biting lightly. Some people don't like this for hygenic reasons--in that event get your mouth near a likely target and call "bite." Think about where it hurts the worst when bitten, and what spots actually cause serious damage (carotid artery, anyone? Num.)

Clothes: Go to Goodwill and get crappy street clothes you don't mind tearing up. Train in this.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Bigshadow]

being on the ground you become helpless if attack from someone who is standing above us.

I would disagree. Being on the ground, you are not helpless. Many things that work standing up work on the ground. I am not as proficient on the ground as standing up, but I am not too worried on the ground.

IMHO, biting, pinching, eye gouging, jaw ripping, ear tearing, eyelid shredding, etc are all things that can be done. The possibilities are limitless. Don't box yourself in to just a few things. Basically, whatever it takes to survive.

 

[lonecoyote]

On pinching: I've been doing a lot of grip work lately Captains of Crush, pinch gripping plates, softball with weights hung underneath, sledgehammer levering, and I can testify that when grappling with someone, a full hand pinch and hard twist anywhere from the armpits to the love handles will really loosen things up, Be forewarned, though, that kind of pain shocks your system and really makes folks mad, while not disabling them. People who I know who've done amateur wrestling say that it's illegal but some people pinch to loosen things up. Just thought I'd mention pinching since everyone else seems to have biting and gouging covered.

 

[jkdhit]

in a real fight, i would do anything to win

2 years ago i was in a fight in wendy's with some stranger who was harrassing me and my friends - i think he was drunk or high. it got physical so i tried to end it quickly by bringing him down, i took him down with a large outside reap. i asked him if he was done, he stayed down so i walked away towards my table. as i was walking away, he grabbed my leg and took my down and got on top of me. as soon as that happened, i pinched his adam's apple, he did the same to me, i applied more pressure and so did he, i ended up gouging him in the eyes then headbutting his nose to get out of that situation.

after all of that, we were pretty much banned from that wendy's but i still go there ocassionally

 

[SammyB57]

What would you do? stay down and grapple or try to get up as soon as possible? What should we do in a real fight?

Win. By whatever means possible.