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Kung Fu and MMA
By TigerClaw - 11-27-2008 10:41 AM
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================
Hello all,
I have been saying for a long time now that MMA fighting is a sport fighting and Kung Fu has a survival combat aspect to it. Don't get me wrong, I am not attacking MMA or any other style, I am merely making observation about the present mindset and reality. I am also trying to correct an imbalance that I have observed.
There is a difference and in a combat fight. A Kung Fu practitioner will go for the soft tissue and the eyes, throat, groin, nerves other muscle attacks and joint attacks, pressure points, fish hooking the eyes and lips etc., it will seem to be dirty fighting but it is not. I am aware that MMA fighters can do this also but my point is that they don't do this on TV or in the rings with the rules. I am not sure if there is much of this kind of teaching even in some other styles, or defenses for such techniques. But as we watch the latest fad we see a fighting style that is one step above Kick Boxing and Judo full contact. However, the very idea that such a fighter is the "ULTIMATE FIGHTER", is not credible, (in my opinion). Sadly it seems that Kung Fu clubs has suffered a bit from this misconception. It apperars that some may look at Kung Fu as not practicle or for combat etc or having no ground game. But what I believe has happened is that many have not been made aware of the centuries of development of Kung Fu and the massive amount of knowledge that is available withing the many systems. And yes, Kung Fu does have a ground game also.
I believe that within the Kung Fu styles are some of the most advanced and powerful martial arts existing on the planet. This is my opinion after many years of study and practice and examining martial arts.
But, back to my point, if a person was allowed to attack the soft tissue in combat such as,the eyes, groin, throat, pressure points, etc, the entire fight would take on a different direction, and it would be over a lot faster. Imagine in real combat a person attack and is kicked in the groin then spear handed in the eyes, the fight is over. Or a man tries to grapple another and as soon as he does this his eyes get gouged and his kneck twisted, or his groin crushed etc.
As I see it, there "SPORT FIGHTING", and there is "COMBATIVE SURVIVAL FIGHTING". The two are very different. In the MMA fights we see on TV often, (these are sport fighting), watch how many times the fighters leave their eyes, throat, groin soft tissue fingers, etc, etc exposed. I know it is a sport and with rules, but that is my point. A kung Fu fighter could not be allowed to use a strong part of his arsenal in such an environment. It is like putting a Kung Fu man in a boxing ring, he would still do well, but it would be like saying to him, don't use your Kung Fu. You must wear these big gloves, which will not allow him to grab, claw, hook gouge or use many other hand techniques. He also cannot kick or hit behind the head or grab or take down etc. This would not be a good example of a Kung Fu stylist. The same is similar in MMA fighting with the Kung Fu fighter as I see it. Plus many Kung Fu fighters only fight for self defense and not for glory or a blet or pride etc. The moral aspect of martial arts is very important as I see it. You do not want to give a gun to someone unless they are responsible.
I think very few today have ever really seen a Kung Fu fighter and his techniques.
Also, the kind of fighting we see in the ring may not be practicle in a real fight, (though some of it would be) I speak more about the ground fighting and grasppling. Kung Fu does have many techniques to deal with grappling also and they do have ground fighting in their systems also. But Kung Fu seeks to end the fight as soon as possible not to get all tangled up and wrestle with the opponent. Also on the streets there are often multiple opponents. The last thing you want to do when a few men are attacking you is wrestle on of them on the ground, (in my opinion, which I speak from having started martial arts over 20 years ago).
Imagine taking a tiger and taking out its claws and sealing it's mouth. A fighter might stand a chance aginst it. But leave the claws in and open its mouth, now what is going to happen when you attack the tiger. This is similar with the Kung Fu fighter in a grappling situation. Kung Fu is preparation for war and combat survival.
Here is some things I just read in "Black Belt Magazine" the new edition on the stands, they are very similar to what I have been saying about this topic. I read these things after I had been discussing this for a while.
"If your on the ground, you need to immediately strike hard. The head is the main target. Take out the eyes, the breathing apparatus, the throat, the nerve groups" (pg 89 Black Belt magazine Januray 2009 edition, by a master named, John Pelegrini, who was introduced into the Black belt hall of fame in 2004 as instructor of the year. His fighting system is one of the systems that the US military is interested in)
He also said,
"...I am appauled that some units learn Brazillian jujitsu and are encouraged to fight on the ground...But the idea is to immediately dislodge the person and recover the dominant standing position. It's not about grappling and rolling on the ground." (when he speaks about
'units", he is refering to military training)(pg 91 Black Belt Magazine)
Another man in the same magazine unde a different article said,
"MMA competition is first and foremost a dueling environment. Self defese is an entirely different animal, and the legal system requires requires you distinguish between the two. "
Wim Demeere is a reality based self defense instructor.
And one more expert says,
"Techniques that would be considered dirty fighting in most martial arts_attacks on the eyes and airways-are staples of reality based self defense." (Henry Kou page, 118, Black belt magazine, he is a level four instructor in Commando Krav maga)
Ok, later.
Read More...
------------------------------------
Defend.net Post Bot - CMA Feed
By TigerClaw - 11-27-2008 10:41 AM
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================
Hello all,
I have been saying for a long time now that MMA fighting is a sport fighting and Kung Fu has a survival combat aspect to it. Don't get me wrong, I am not attacking MMA or any other style, I am merely making observation about the present mindset and reality. I am also trying to correct an imbalance that I have observed.
There is a difference and in a combat fight. A Kung Fu practitioner will go for the soft tissue and the eyes, throat, groin, nerves other muscle attacks and joint attacks, pressure points, fish hooking the eyes and lips etc., it will seem to be dirty fighting but it is not. I am aware that MMA fighters can do this also but my point is that they don't do this on TV or in the rings with the rules. I am not sure if there is much of this kind of teaching even in some other styles, or defenses for such techniques. But as we watch the latest fad we see a fighting style that is one step above Kick Boxing and Judo full contact. However, the very idea that such a fighter is the "ULTIMATE FIGHTER", is not credible, (in my opinion). Sadly it seems that Kung Fu clubs has suffered a bit from this misconception. It apperars that some may look at Kung Fu as not practicle or for combat etc or having no ground game. But what I believe has happened is that many have not been made aware of the centuries of development of Kung Fu and the massive amount of knowledge that is available withing the many systems. And yes, Kung Fu does have a ground game also.
I believe that within the Kung Fu styles are some of the most advanced and powerful martial arts existing on the planet. This is my opinion after many years of study and practice and examining martial arts.
But, back to my point, if a person was allowed to attack the soft tissue in combat such as,the eyes, groin, throat, pressure points, etc, the entire fight would take on a different direction, and it would be over a lot faster. Imagine in real combat a person attack and is kicked in the groin then spear handed in the eyes, the fight is over. Or a man tries to grapple another and as soon as he does this his eyes get gouged and his kneck twisted, or his groin crushed etc.
As I see it, there "SPORT FIGHTING", and there is "COMBATIVE SURVIVAL FIGHTING". The two are very different. In the MMA fights we see on TV often, (these are sport fighting), watch how many times the fighters leave their eyes, throat, groin soft tissue fingers, etc, etc exposed. I know it is a sport and with rules, but that is my point. A kung Fu fighter could not be allowed to use a strong part of his arsenal in such an environment. It is like putting a Kung Fu man in a boxing ring, he would still do well, but it would be like saying to him, don't use your Kung Fu. You must wear these big gloves, which will not allow him to grab, claw, hook gouge or use many other hand techniques. He also cannot kick or hit behind the head or grab or take down etc. This would not be a good example of a Kung Fu stylist. The same is similar in MMA fighting with the Kung Fu fighter as I see it. Plus many Kung Fu fighters only fight for self defense and not for glory or a blet or pride etc. The moral aspect of martial arts is very important as I see it. You do not want to give a gun to someone unless they are responsible.
I think very few today have ever really seen a Kung Fu fighter and his techniques.
Also, the kind of fighting we see in the ring may not be practicle in a real fight, (though some of it would be) I speak more about the ground fighting and grasppling. Kung Fu does have many techniques to deal with grappling also and they do have ground fighting in their systems also. But Kung Fu seeks to end the fight as soon as possible not to get all tangled up and wrestle with the opponent. Also on the streets there are often multiple opponents. The last thing you want to do when a few men are attacking you is wrestle on of them on the ground, (in my opinion, which I speak from having started martial arts over 20 years ago).
Imagine taking a tiger and taking out its claws and sealing it's mouth. A fighter might stand a chance aginst it. But leave the claws in and open its mouth, now what is going to happen when you attack the tiger. This is similar with the Kung Fu fighter in a grappling situation. Kung Fu is preparation for war and combat survival.
Here is some things I just read in "Black Belt Magazine" the new edition on the stands, they are very similar to what I have been saying about this topic. I read these things after I had been discussing this for a while.
"If your on the ground, you need to immediately strike hard. The head is the main target. Take out the eyes, the breathing apparatus, the throat, the nerve groups" (pg 89 Black Belt magazine Januray 2009 edition, by a master named, John Pelegrini, who was introduced into the Black belt hall of fame in 2004 as instructor of the year. His fighting system is one of the systems that the US military is interested in)
He also said,
"...I am appauled that some units learn Brazillian jujitsu and are encouraged to fight on the ground...But the idea is to immediately dislodge the person and recover the dominant standing position. It's not about grappling and rolling on the ground." (when he speaks about
'units", he is refering to military training)(pg 91 Black Belt Magazine)
Another man in the same magazine unde a different article said,
"MMA competition is first and foremost a dueling environment. Self defese is an entirely different animal, and the legal system requires requires you distinguish between the two. "
Wim Demeere is a reality based self defense instructor.
And one more expert says,
"Techniques that would be considered dirty fighting in most martial arts_attacks on the eyes and airways-are staples of reality based self defense." (Henry Kou page, 118, Black belt magazine, he is a level four instructor in Commando Krav maga)
Ok, later.
Read More...
------------------------------------
Defend.net Post Bot - CMA Feed
