Western 10th Degrees. Fake or legit?

Goldendragon7

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arnisador said:
People who can really walk the walk seem to get away with promoting themselves to 10th dan.
NO......... the REAL ones never want it.


arnisador said:
It'd be nice to be able to identify the fakers, though.
Everyone but the raw beginners know who these guys are....... don't kid yourself. They are just legends in their own minds and living in their own little ponds..... they never swim with the big sharks because they will look stupid.

I know of one of these guys that taught a seminar then asked a very prominent, respected and skilled, Kenpo Black Belt (lower ranked than the bozo doing the seminar) what he thought..... and his response was.. well, you got a couple of things right.........:uhyeah:
 

RRouuselot

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In 2003 I, along with several other people of various MA gave a Demo on Camp Zama. Several arts were represented, Chinese, Japanese, and "another”.

The “other” was a guy named Castro who claimed to be a 10th dan, Soke and had founded several MA organizations… one of them he called Japanese Ancient Jukato(JAJ); a mixture of Jiu-Jitsu and Karate, as well as, Matsudiara-Ryu Nihon-Jujutsu…...all bogus of course. At the event he solicted not only me but every other style to join his organization. I thought it was pretty ballzy of him to go around and ask people to join even though he had no idea who we were or what kind of people we are. Anyway all the groups demoed and Castro got up and claimed he was going to do an ancient sword kata using a katana developed by Chinese sword makers that were kidnapped and taken to a village in Japan. The Chinese sword makers developed this kata to protect the village from bandits. He then proceeded to turn on a boom box and do what looked like a combination of Tae-bo, aerobics and jazzdance with a katana in his hand, every once in a while scrapping it on the ground…..ugh….. the BS load got to me and after seeing this demo I wanted to kick the living crap out of this guy but was persuaded not to by a few friends. Come to find out he, as well as I, both worked on Camp Zama. I saw him on more than a few occasions and asked if he would care to work out……EVERYTIME he declined claiming injury to some part of his body...... can you say "wuss"?
Too bad he never took me up on my offer because I wanted to "dial in a choke" on this guy sooooo bad.


Here is Grandmaster Castor's Bio:
[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Master Castro is the International Representative and President of FUMA(Federation of United Martial Artists) Japan. Master Castro was born on 10 December 1959, in Manhattan, New York. Master Castro is a ranked heavy professional martial artist who has studied since he was ten years old. He studied under Chinese Master Lo receiving his first Black Belt in 1976. He was awarded the 6th Degree Black Belt(Shihan/Master Rank) in Professor Kato's system of JAJ in 1996 and was awarded the rank of Grand Master in 2001. He is a member of the International Federation of Jiu-Jitsuans(IFOJJ). Master Castro also has a 4th Degree Black Belt(YonDan) in Japanese Okinawan Goju-Ryu, 4th Degree(YonDan) in Chinese Tiger Claw, and 2nd Degree(NiDan) in Taekwondo. His known competitor name is "White Tiger", winning over 50 stateside welter-weight championships. He is director of the Black Belt Unity Program(BBUP), dedicated to professional education and the development of Black Belt students and instructors. Master Castro was the U.S. Olympic Committee Representative for five years consecutively while assigned to Ft. Bragg, N.C. He trained the U.S. Army Taekwondo and Karate Teams, of which won Gold and Silver Medals in county, city, state, governor cup, region, national and international competitions. Some of his students own successful martial arts schools operationally located in Alabama, Florida, Kansas, Virginia, and New York. Master Castro was the head Instructor (Kouchou) for Jujutsu-Karate at Camp Zama, Japan, for approximately 13 years. Master Castro now teaches in Hawaii. One of his students is Instructor Nidan Kim W. Zornes. Master Castro has the following qualifications:[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Master Certified Examiner for: International Federation of Ju-Jitsuans(IFOJJ); U.S. Martial Arts Federation(USMAF); U.S. Jujitsu Federation(USJF); U.S. Martial Arts Association(USMAA); and the International Black Belt Unity Program(IBBUP).[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Certified Master Instructor for: Matsudiara-ryu Nihon-Jujutsu Honbu; Federation of United Martial Artists (FUMA); International Martial Arts Federation (IMAF); U.S. Martial Arts Association (USMAA); World Martial Arts Federation (WMAF).[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Military U.S. Olympic Coach for Martial Arts, Ft. Bragg, NC; 1991-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Coach, Post Taekwondo and Karate Team, Ft. Bragg, NC; 1990-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Instructor, Japanese Ancient Jukato, Jiujitsu-Karate; 1976-1996[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Master Instructor; 1996-present[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]International Masters Council Self Defense Champion; 1993-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]International Masters Open Weapons Champion; 1993-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]European Martial Arts Union Weapons Champion; 1994[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]International Martial Arts Federation Welter Weight Champion; 1991-1993[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]East Region Martial Arts Association Welter Weight Champion; 1991[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]World Martial Arts Federation Welter Weight Champion; 1984-1986[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Eighteen Presidential Citations for Jiujitsu-Karate and Martial Arts[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Seven Commendations, President's Sports Council[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]One US Olympic Committee Recognition Plaque[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Ft. Bragg Martial Arts Coach of the Year; 1992-1994[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] Master of the Year 2002 for Japan, awarded by USMAA [/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] [font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2][/font]
[/font]
 
L

lonekimono10

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Hey Robert, he sound's like a great guy:partyon:
how about we stop by for dinner:mp5:
you know just to say Hello,, ah forgetaboutit:idunno:
 

RRouuselot

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lonekimono10 said:
how about we stop by for dinner:mp5:
you know just to say Hello,, ah forgetaboutit:idunno:

????? Sorry, I don't understand what you mean..
 

mj-hi-yah

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Robert being that I live in NY, I think maybe he's just making a gangster joke...Ya know pay the guy a little visit...
 

Jerry

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1. i dont think that is any kind of criteria for a belt ranking. there are and were lots of people that were heads of systems that did not wear that rank2. i think the rank should pretty much be an indicator of ability. should the secretary of the dojo have a judan.......only if he or she has been in the arts for 40 or 50 years.

3.complete the most tests?.....i dont know about that. but i do think that there is other criteria that someone can be measured by.........but only by someone that has real knowledge and experience. someone mentioned that a 7th dan and a 10th dans skill levels wouldnt be much different.....i think that is totally untrue. and i think most 7th dans would think it untrue as well.

4. i think high ranking military personnel have to earn their position.......you dont become an admiral or general because your buddies with someone (at least from stories ive heard)
1. Can you name a system in which the head did not have the higest rank the system awarded?

2. What happens when your ability goes down? Should we downgrade ranks because someone got old?

3. That depends on the system in question and whether 7th-10th dan is an indicator of skill or position.

4. You don't have much experience with high-level promotions I take it.
 

Jerry

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NO......... the REAL ones never want it.
What is a "REAL" one?

Everyone but the raw beginners know who these guys are....... don't kid yourself. They are just legends in their own minds and living in their own little ponds..... they never swim with the big sharks because they will look stupid.
And who are "the big sharks"?

I know of one of these guys that taught a seminar then asked a very prominent, respected and skilled, Kenpo Black Belt (lower ranked than the bozo doing the seminar) what he thought..... and his response was.. well, you got a couple of things right.........
And I once watched a 3 year Silat student wipe the floor with a 20-year Kenpo instructor... what's your point? Your anticdote could just as easily be used to prove that "prominent, respected and skilled" kenpoists are egotistical and rude.

It is indeed interesting how many people berate those who assert their own authority while in the process of committing the same sin. Me thinks thou doth protest too much.

I like systems that reign controls on their rankings. A newbie would do well to start with a large and organized association with a good reputation from which to establish base knowledge; after which he should be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff himself.

Ironically, I play in arts where I'm much more interested in specific liniages, because such associations don't really exist (they do in some Silat arts, like Mande Muda or Senai Gayong, but not with most of whom I play).

As one last aside this post, I also know people who do heavily self-promote... and yet have good stuff anyway. I've studied from people I didn't neccessairily like or agree with because they had something I wanted to learn... and they don't even need to neccessairily be "the big dogs" to have it.
 

Aegis

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Jerry said:
1. Can you name a system in which the head did not have the higest rank the system awarded?
Judo. When the kodokan tried to award a 10th dan to Jigoro Kano, I believe he created 2 grades above that to prove that he wasn't the best there ever could be at his system.
 

Andrew Green

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Jerry said:
What is a "REAL" one?
The opposite of a imaginary one?

And I once watched a 3 year Silat student wipe the floor with a 20-year Kenpo instructor... what's your point? Your anticdote could just as easily be used to prove that "prominent, respected and skilled" kenpoists are egotistical and rude.
Yeah, rank and ability are not often related...

It is indeed interesting how many people berate those who assert their own authority while in the process of committing the same sin. Me thinks thou doth protest too much.
No no no

These people put themselves up.

That is not the same as putting others down ;)

I like systems that reign controls on their rankings. A newbie would do well to start with a large and organized association with a good reputation from which to establish base knowledge; after which he should be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff himself.
I'd say join a place that is fun and do some research into what you want to do... Books / videos / internet. Not on the individual or credentials, on the stuff you want to learn.

As one last aside this post, I also know people who do heavily self-promote... and yet have good stuff anyway. I've studied from people I didn't neccessairily like or agree with because they had something I wanted to learn... and they don't even need to neccessairily be "the big dogs" to have it.
Usually it is a business decission.

As unethical as we might think it is, It is also hard to keep a commercial school open. I'd rather see a good instructor "tweak" his marketing then stop teaching...

Note the "good" in there... But then how do you define good, all the guys that can't do much of anything that works think they're good too...
 

Andrew Green

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Aegis said:
Judo. When the kodokan tried to award a 10th dan to Jigoro Kano, I believe he created 2 grades above that to prove that he wasn't the best there ever could be at his system.
Pretty sure they awarded him a 12th dan after he died, so that no one else could ever get as high as him...

Funakoshi only claimed 5th when he was alive, same after death sneak promotion to 10th ;)
 

Jerry

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Judo. When the kodokan tried to award a 10th dan to Jigoro Kano, I believe he created 2 grades above that to prove that he wasn't the best there ever could be at his system.
Interesting. How would a 10th dan be qualified to determine the testing / criteria for 11th and 12th dan?


The opposite of a imaginary one?
That's non-responsive. Or are you saying that imaginary friends want 10th dan rankings and no real people do? It sounds like we are about to fall into an argument on skepticism and certainty. I think therefore I am.

No no no

These people put themselves up.

That is not the same as putting others down
touche' , I stand corrected.

As unethical as we might think it is, It is also hard to keep a commercial school open. I'd rather see a good instructor "tweak" his marketing then stop teaching...
I agree. As much as the "ultimate street art"-type language is personally offensive... to spend your life doing martial arts (unless you are independatly wealthy) requires that you make a living off it.

I've known some great instructors to put out promotional material that made me queasy.
 

RRouuselot

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Andrew Green said:
Funakoshi only claimed 5th when he was alive, same after death sneak promotion to 10th ;)
Really? I thought they dropped a 10th dan on him right before he croaked.
Either way, I have seen 8mm that was transfered to video of him.....the guy sucked big time. Ihave seen kyu ranked shotokan students perform better kata......No wonder Motobu thought he was full of crap.
 

Robert Carver

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RRouuselot said:
In 2003 I, along with several other people of various MA gave a Demo on Camp Zama. Several arts were represented, Chinese, Japanese, and "another”.

The “other” was a guy named Castro who claimed to be a 10th dan, Soke and had founded several MA organizations… one of them he called Japanese Ancient Jukato(JAJ); a mixture of Jiu-Jitsu and Karate, as well as, Matsudiara-Ryu Nihon-Jujutsu…...all bogus of course. At the event he solicted not only me but every other style to join his organization. I thought it was pretty ballzy of him to go around and ask people to join even though he had no idea who we were or what kind of people we are. Anyway all the groups demoed and Castro got up and claimed he was going to do an ancient sword kata using a katana developed by Chinese sword makers that were kidnapped and taken to a village in Japan. The Chinese sword makers developed this kata to protect the village from bandits. He then proceeded to turn on a boom box and do what looked like a combination of Tae-bo, aerobics and jazzdance with a katana in his hand, every once in a while scrapping it on the ground…..ugh….. the BS load got to me and after seeing this demo I wanted to kick the living crap out of this guy but was persuaded not to by a few friends. Come to find out he, as well as I, both worked on Camp Zama. I saw him on more than a few occasions and asked if he would care to work out……EVERYTIME he declined claiming injury to some part of his body...... can you say "wuss"?
Too bad he never took me up on my offer because I wanted to "dial in a choke" on this guy sooooo bad.


Here is Grandmaster Castor's Bio:
[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Master Castro is the International Representative and President of FUMA(Federation of United Martial Artists) Japan. Master Castro was born on 10 December 1959, in Manhattan, New York. Master Castro is a ranked heavy professional martial artist who has studied since he was ten years old. He studied under Chinese Master Lo receiving his first Black Belt in 1976. He was awarded the 6th Degree Black Belt(Shihan/Master Rank) in Professor Kato's system of JAJ in 1996 and was awarded the rank of Grand Master in 2001. He is a member of the International Federation of Jiu-Jitsuans(IFOJJ). Master Castro also has a 4th Degree Black Belt(YonDan) in Japanese Okinawan Goju-Ryu, 4th Degree(YonDan) in Chinese Tiger Claw, and 2nd Degree(NiDan) in Taekwondo. His known competitor name is "White Tiger", winning over 50 stateside welter-weight championships. He is director of the Black Belt Unity Program(BBUP), dedicated to professional education and the development of Black Belt students and instructors. Master Castro was the U.S. Olympic Committee Representative for five years consecutively while assigned to Ft. Bragg, N.C. He trained the U.S. Army Taekwondo and Karate Teams, of which won Gold and Silver Medals in county, city, state, governor cup, region, national and international competitions. Some of his students own successful martial arts schools operationally located in Alabama, Florida, Kansas, Virginia, and New York. Master Castro was the head Instructor (Kouchou) for Jujutsu-Karate at Camp Zama, Japan, for approximately 13 years. Master Castro now teaches in Hawaii. One of his students is Instructor Nidan Kim W. Zornes. Master Castro has the following qualifications:[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Master Certified Examiner for: International Federation of Ju-Jitsuans(IFOJJ); U.S. Martial Arts Federation(USMAF); U.S. Jujitsu Federation(USJF); U.S. Martial Arts Association(USMAA); and the International Black Belt Unity Program(IBBUP).[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Certified Master Instructor for: Matsudiara-ryu Nihon-Jujutsu Honbu; Federation of United Martial Artists (FUMA); International Martial Arts Federation (IMAF); U.S. Martial Arts Association (USMAA); World Martial Arts Federation (WMAF).[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Military U.S. Olympic Coach for Martial Arts, Ft. Bragg, NC; 1991-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Coach, Post Taekwondo and Karate Team, Ft. Bragg, NC; 1990-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Instructor, Japanese Ancient Jukato, Jiujitsu-Karate; 1976-1996[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Master Instructor; 1996-present[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]International Masters Council Self Defense Champion; 1993-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]International Masters Open Weapons Champion; 1993-1995[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]European Martial Arts Union Weapons Champion; 1994[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]International Martial Arts Federation Welter Weight Champion; 1991-1993[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]East Region Martial Arts Association Welter Weight Champion; 1991[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]World Martial Arts Federation Welter Weight Champion; 1984-1986[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Eighteen Presidential Citations for Jiujitsu-Karate and Martial Arts[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Seven Commendations, President's Sports Council[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]One US Olympic Committee Recognition Plaque[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]Ft. Bragg Martial Arts Coach of the Year; 1992-1994[/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] Master of the Year 2002 for Japan, awarded by USMAA [/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2] [font=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2][/font]
[/font]
Robert:

Just for clarification, this David G. Castro does NOT hold any rank, title or certification from the United States Ju-Jitsu Federation or the United States Martial Arts Federation. It is possible he a member of one or both organizations (we are checking, but anyone can join), but probably did not meet the "smell" test with regard to us certifying rank or other qualifications.
 

RRouuselot

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Robert Carver said:
Robert:

Just for clarification, this David G. Castro does NOT hold any rank, title or certification from the United States Ju-Jitsu Federation or the United States Martial Arts Federation. It is possible he a member of one or both organizations (we are checking, but anyone can join), but probably did not meet the "smell" test with regard to us certifying rank or other qualifications.
Robert,

Read through some of this guys bio.....there is just so much nonsense in there.....if you were to see this guy demo you would know what a bunch of crp it is. Actually, another member of MT(Matt Stone) has seen him as well...I would bet dollars to donuts his opinion is not that different than mine about this guy.
 

Andrew Green

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RRouuselot said:
R
Either way, I have seen 8mm that was transfered to video of him.....the guy sucked big time. Ihave seen kyu ranked shotokan students perform better kata......No wonder Motobu thought he was full of crap.
Thank god I wasn't drinking anything :D
 

Robert Carver

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RRouuselot said:
Robert,

Read through some of this guys bio.....there is just so much nonsense in there.....if you were to see this guy demo you would know what a bunch of crp it is. Actually, another member of MT(Matt Stone) has seen him as well...I would bet dollars to donuts his opinion is not that different than mine about this guy.
Honestly, I am pretty sure that I would not have to see this guy in person to know he is full of it. The amount of BS in the Bio sent enough warning flags for me to seriously doubt his credibility. While it would be difficult for me to pick out my favorite BS, these two would have to run as my favorites.

Military U.S. Olympic Coach for Martial Arts (martial arts are in the Olympics? I thought it was just Judo and Tae Kwon Do!).

International Martial Arts Federation Welter Weight Champion. (I wonder if IMAF knows that they have a Welter Weight Champion?).
 

RRouuselot

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Robert Carver said:
Honestly, I am pretty sure that I would not have to see this guy in person to know he is full of it. The amount of BS in the Bio sent enough warning flags for me to seriously doubt his credibility. While it would be difficult for me to pick out my favorite BS, these two would have to run as my favorites.

Military U.S. Olympic Coach for Martial Arts (martial arts are in the Olympics? I thought it was just Judo and Tae Kwon Do!).

International Martial Arts Federation Welter Weight Champion. (I wonder if IMAF knows that they have a Welter Weight Champion?).
Two of my personal favorites are:



1) Master Castro was the head Instructor (Kouchou) for Jujutsu-Karate at Camp Zama, Japan,



2) Master of the Year 2002 for Japan, awarded by USMAA



1)[font=&quot] [/font]He was contracted through MWR (Moral Welfare & Recreation) as a martial arts instructor; he had one maybe two students on a regular basis. How do I know this? His contract was done through my office while I was on Zama, I saw his contract as well as his invoice…..in fact the last several years he was there he had NO students at all.

Funny how he never trained with a Ranger that was All Senior Men’s Division jujutsu of Japan…..nor did he train with another guy that worked in M.I. that could reps with 400lbs on the bench that was also into Jujutsu....both stationed on Zama while he was there......head instructor my butt.....maybe in his dorm room he was the "head instructor"




2)This is one big steamy creamy cow pie if I ever saw one.
 

arnisador

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Goldendragon7 said:
I know of one of these guys that taught a seminar then asked a very prominent, respected and skilled, Kenpo Black Belt (lower ranked than the bozo doing the seminar) what he thought..... and his response was.. well, you got a couple of things right.........:uhyeah:
Are you talking about any Kenpoist I know? :D
 
L

lonekimono10

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mj-hi-yah said:
Robert being that I live in NY, I think maybe he's just making a gangster joke...Ya know pay the guy a little visit...
Hey Robert, where are you from,? but anyways hows about yous amd me go and see dis guy and "make him an offer he can't refuse":supcool:
now do you GABISE??
 

RRouuselot

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lonekimono10 said:
Hey Robert, where are you from,? but anyways hows about yous amd me go and see dis guy and "make him an offer he can't refuse":supcool:
now do you GABISE??

Originally from K.C..

Do you really think it would take two people? ;)

I guess it might take two.....I mean someone has to hold the video camera right?
 

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