Well rounded taekwondo

[Axkick1]

Hello all, I have been going back and forth about which grappling style to train in on the side. I have a black belt In tang soo do but recently I’ve started training in Olympic style taekwondo. I have some experience in judo newaza but it is very basic. I would like to know what grappling art helps a taekwondo practitioner or is most beneficial to taekwondo. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Any. Depends more on your way of thinking, really.
Personally, I prefer stand up grappling arts (like Hapkido and Akido) over ground arts (like BJJ) simply because it is my opinion that being on the ground in a self defense situation is Bad Idea (tm). Other will disagree.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Like DD, I have a preference for remaining standing. Judo is a good place to work from if, especially if you like the idea of competing (even within the dojo). You'll get a more limited range of responses in Judo than in something like Hapkido, because they tend to distill down to what works against other Judoka (and further, often, to what is allowed in competition), which is a much smaller population of techniques than what will work on everyone else. There's good and bad to that smaller list of techniques, IMO.

 

[Axkick1]

Like DD, I have a preference for remaining standing. Judo is a good place to work from if, especially if you like the idea of competing (even within the dojo). You'll get a more limited range of responses in Judo than in something like Hapkido, because they tend to distill down to what works against other Judoka (and further, often, to what is allowed in competition), which is a much smaller population of techniques than what will work on everyone else. There's good and bad to that smaller list of techniques, IMO.

Hmmm very interesting. Thank you both for your input. What are your takes on Brazilian jujitsu with taekwondo? Or wrestling?

 

[Headhunter]

Helps you in what way? Because if your looking for help in taekwondo competition then grappling isnt any use for that. If it's for mma then you'll need more than just one grappling art and if it's for self defence any is good

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hmmm very interesting. Thank you both for your input. What are your takes on Brazilian jujitsu with taekwondo? Or wrestling?

Both will work well with TKD, but I share DD's thoughts on avoiding the ground. Both wrestling and BJJ have a focus on moving to the ground. The best use of this is that you'd also be training on how to avoid going to the ground. That latter, you'd also get a good focus on from Judo, with the added benefit of much more focus on being able to put the other guy down without necessarily going to the ground, yourself (though there's a reasonable amount of that in Judo, too). With other standing grappling (Aikido, Hapkido, etc.), it depends on the school how much you learn to avoid being taken to the ground. If there's resisted training (two people trying to put each other on the ground), you'll get that benefit. If not, probably not.

 

[Axkick1]

Helps you in what way? Because if your looking for help in taekwondo competition then grappling isnt any use for that. If it's for mma then you'll need more than just one grappling art and if it's for self defence any is good

I’m predominant a kicker (taekwondo stylist) and I like that. But to me a worse case scenario is coming across an extremely good kickboxer or a grappler. I want to have a good understanding of the ground, if for some reason I end up there. If I’m not able to get back up to my feet I want to be able to know I can handle myself. When a conflict arises my goal is to not go to ground if the assistant I’m facing is a regular person or doesn’t know grappling, but as I said before, if they are for some reason a competent grappler I’d like to be able to hold my own with them with the eventual goal of getting back to my feet.

 

[Axkick1]

Both will work well with TKD, but I share DD's thoughts on avoiding the ground. Both wrestling and BJJ have a focus on moving to the ground. The best use of this is that you'd also be training on how to avoid going to the ground. That latter, you'd also get a good focus on from Judo, with the added benefit of much more focus on being able to put the other guy down without necessarily going to the ground, yourself (though there's a reasonable amount of that in Judo, too). With other standing grappling (Aikido, Hapkido, etc.), it depends on the school how much you learn to avoid being taken to the ground. If there's resisted training (two people trying to put each other on the ground), you'll get that benefit. If not, probably not.

I want to avoid the ground but I also want a style that gets me out of sticky grappling situation and back to my feet and if I end up on the ground and can’t get up I’d be able to competently hold my own and even negate my attackers ground submissions.

 

[Headhunter]

I’m predominant a kicker (taekwondo stylist) and I like that. But to me a worse case scenario is coming across an extremely good kickboxer or a grappler. I want to have a good understanding of the ground, if for some reason I end up there. If I’m not able to get back up to my feet I want to be able to know I can handle myself. When a conflict arises my goal is to not go to ground if the assistant I’m facing is a regular person or doesn’t know grappling, but as I said before, if they are for some reason a competent grappler I’d like to be able to hold my own with them with the eventual goal of getting back to my feet.

Then I'd say jiu jitsu. Wrestlers don't spend a lot of training off their back, judo from what I know spends more time in a standing clinch and works on throwing your oppenont and it has some emphasis on mat work but it's not the focus. But jiu jitsu spends a lot of time on your back teaching either submissions from your back or sweeps and reversals.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Juijutsu akido Krav Maga and Kenpo

 

[Headhunter]

Juijutsu akido Krav Maga and Kenpo

Krav Maga and kendo aren't grappling arts

 

[skribs]

I don't think the goal of BJJ is to get on your back. I think BJJ recognizes it as an eventuality and seeks to dominate in the worst case scenario.

I think Judo is a well-rounded complement, but I personally train Hapkido along with my Taekwondo, because my TKD master teaches Hapkido.

 

[DanT]

The first question to ask yourself is: "which distance of fighting does my art lack the most?"

If we were to give ratings out of 3:

3/3 Comprehensive
2/3 Decent
1/3 Lacking
0/3 Non-existent

For TKD we could say:

Kicking: 3/3
Punching: 2/3
Clinch: 1/3
Stand-Up Grappling: 1/3
Ground-Fighting: 0/3

This is on a school by school basis, but for the most part represents a good majority of TKD schools out there.

Now if we look at BJJ:

Kicking: 0/3
Punching: 0/3
Clinch: 1/3
Stand-Up Grappling: 1/3
Ground-Fighting: 3/3

I think for this reason, BJJ is an excellent compliment to your TKD training.

 

[drop bear]

I don't think the goal of BJJ is to get on your back. I think BJJ recognizes it as an eventuality and seeks to dominate in the worst case scenario.

I think Judo is a well-rounded complement, but I personally train Hapkido along with my Taekwondo, because my TKD master teaches Hapkido.

Guard in BJJ is an offensive position. But they are still either trying to get on top of you or take your back.

I still think wrestling has a heavier focus on standing back up. Otherwise split the difference and do submission wrestling.

For striking you basically want to be on top of the guy.

 

[skribs]

Guard in BJJ is an offensive position. But they are still either trying to get on top of you or take your back.

I still think wrestling has a heavier focus on standing back up. Otherwise split the difference and do submission wrestling.

For striking you basically want to be on top of the guy.

My point is, if I go up against a BJJ fighter, is his fighting stance going to be on his back? Or is he going to stand up, and then try to bring me down to his level?

-----

The first question to ask yourself is: "which distance of fighting does my art lack the most?"

If we were to give ratings out of 3:

3/3 Comprehensive
2/3 Decent
1/3 Lacking
0/3 Non-existent

For TKD we could say:

Kicking: 3/3
Punching: 2/3
Clinch: 1/3
Stand-Up Grappling: 1/3
Ground-Fighting: 0/3

This is on a school by school basis, but for the most part represents a good majority of TKD schools out there.

Now if we look at BJJ:

Kicking: 0/3
Punching: 0/3
Clinch: 1/3
Stand-Up Grappling: 1/3
Ground-Fighting: 3/3

I think for this reason, BJJ is an excellent compliment to your TKD training.

This is also why I thought Judo would be pretty good, since I'd rate it higher in clinch/stand-up and still a 2/3 in Ground. It's still going to make up where Taekwondo is lacking, just where Taekwondo is lacking less. Really, any grappling art will complement Taekwondo in that fashion. Hapkido will really help with the stand-up grappling, Wrestling will really help in the clinch, etc.

Where BJJ + TKD will get you more threes, I think Judo or Wrestling will get you more 2+ scores on your chart.

I actually think it would be fun to see where each art (based on the average school for the art) ranks in the various traits. That could be an interesting table.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My point is, if I go up against a BJJ fighter, is his fighting stance going to be on his back? Or is he going to stand up, and then try to bring me down to his level?

From the Bjj-ers I know, generally the second.

 

[drop bear]

My point is, if I go up against a BJJ fighter, is his fighting stance going to be on his back? Or is he going to stand up, and then try to bring me down to his level?

Well they may jump on their back or butt flop which I would not recommend for self defence. Or MMA. Unless you are an absolute gun BJJer.

 

[skribs]

From the BJJ-ers I know, the second. They're not going to just plant on the ground and wait.

That's...my point. That BJJ isn't just about sitting on the ground waiting for the fight to come to him. The point I was trying to argue was whether the philosophy of BJJ is "I want the fight to go to the ground" or if it is "I don't want to be screwed if the fight goes to the ground."

 

[Axkick1]

It seems like some people are split on the issue. From what I’m seeing most people seem to recommend Brazilian jujitsu, judo or hapkido. So which of these 3 would be the most beneficial to round out a taekwondo stylist and make him more comfortable on the street or in a grappling encounter?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It seems like some people are split on the issue. From what I’m seeing most people seem to recommend Brazilian jujitsu, judo or hapkido. So which of these 3 would be the most beneficial to round out a taekwondo stylist and make him more comfortable on the street or in a grappling encounter?

It really depends on what your reasoning is, which I believe everyone's already stated above. Theres no 1 answer, and in overly-simplified terms: hapkido traditionally goes well with TKD, judo will help you grappling while staying standing, BJJ will help you if you end up on the ground. It's up to you what you value more.