Comparison of karate styles

[Tony Dismukes112 8]

I've never heard BJJ being called ''the gentle art".

"Jiu-jitsu/Jujutsu" (Brazilian or otherwise) as well as "Judo" is often translated as "gentle art".

For example: What is Jiu-Jitsu? An Intro to the Gentle Art - BJJ World

It's not really the best translation. "Ju" can mean soft, gentle, flexible, pliable, adaptable, etc. In a martial arts context, "adaptable" might be a better translation. Here's an essay by someone more knowledgeable than myself on the topic: The True Meaning of Ju in Judo and Jujutsu by Andrew Yiannakis, Ph.D & Linda Yiannakis, M.S. | American Traditional Jujutsu Association

 

[Prince_Alarming114 144]

Some dude told me it was meant to be gentle on the practicioner and not on the vict... I mean the opponent, and I can well believe it

 

[Darren1]

Brasilian soft(gentle) method - BJJ ?

i just typed in gentle martial arts and the first to pop up was BJJ?

 

[Xue Sheng107 24]

i just typed in gentle martial arts and the first to pop up was BJJ?

Most inappropriate application of the word Gentle I’ve heard

 

[Same Trick59 10]

Nope. Never heard anyone say that.

if you say ”Brasilian Jujutsu” you are saying ”brasilian soft(gentle) method ”

but I agree, it sounds a little weird mixing with Japanese words that might be difficult to relate to

 

[Headbald]

"Jiu-jitsu/Jujutsu" (Brazilian or otherwise) as well as "Judo" is often translated as "gentle art".

Judo/柔道 is actually more translated as the "gentle way" more than gentle art. The way Do is written in Japanese is the same way Tao is written in Chinese. So in Japanese and Chinese, it directly means The Tao of Softness.

 

[Prince_Alarming114 144]

Petition to rename it yukajitsu, the way of hitting people with the floor

 

[Buka29 3]

I’ve been beaten, controlled, bested, dominated, smoked and run the F over by partitioners of many martial arts over the last fifty years.

None of them, not a single one, has ever come close to the gentleness that a superior BJJ practitioner has shown me.

 

[Darren1]

I’ve been beaten, controlled, bested, dominated, smoked and run the F over by partitioners of many martial arts over the last fifty years.

None of them, not a single one, has ever come close to the gentleness that a superior BJJ practitioner has shown me.

it`s like i had to relearn how to fight all over again, you take any kind of standup thats explosive and now in BJJ you have to tone it down.

 

[Prince_Alarming114 144]

Seriously though, I'm not sure the notion of differing styles in karate hasn't been overplayed. It sometimes seems like there is more variation between clubs than between styles.

 

[Darren1]

Seriously though, I'm not sure the notion of differing styles in karate hasn't been overplayed. It sometimes seems like there is more variation between clubs than between styles.

as in all things human, it seems.

 

[isshinryuronin4 3]

Seriously though, I'm not sure the notion of differing styles in karate hasn't been overplayed. It sometimes seems like there is more variation between clubs than between styles.

I think we can recognize some general observations in the way some various styles spar:

Korean - Longer range and higher kicks.
Japanese - More emphasis on deep punching attacks and counters.
Okinawan - Lower kicks and shorter-range hand strikes.
American kenpo - Fast mid-range hand and kick combinations.

Overlayed on this canvas is the school instructor's influence and, even more importantly, IMO, the individual's nature and preference. To a large degree I think fighting is a very personal expression.

An important point, if were talking about sport karate, is to note that Okinawan karate grew up in the days prior to sparring competition (fighting another with more or less similar training), the other styles developed in the sporting era. All competing styles (in open tournaments) must adhere to the same rule set, so must conform to a certain extent to those techniques and strategies that score points.

Given the many factors above, looking for differences between specific styles in sparring can be tricky. The best way to see this is watching their traditional kata. This will mostly be a purer form of the particular style's nature (stance, power generation, distance, weapon and target preference and self-defense strategies).

In those styles which mostly developed in the sporting era, the kata and sparring more closely resemble each other. In Okinawan karate, the two will look much different.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think we can recognize some general observations in the way some various styles spar:

Korean - Longer range and higher kicks.
Japanese - More emphasis on deep punching attacks and counters.
Okinawan - Lower kicks and shorter-range hand strikes.
American kenpo - Fast mid-range hand and kick combinations.

Overlayed on this canvas is the school instructor's influence and, even more importantly, IMO, the individual's nature and preference. To a large degree I think fighting is a very personal expression.

An important point, if were talking about sport karate, is to note that Okinawan karate grew up in the days prior to sparring competition (fighting another with more or less similar training), the other styles developed in the sporting era. All competing styles (in open tournaments) must adhere to the same rule set, so must conform to a certain extent to those techniques and strategies that score points.

Given the many factors above, looking for differences between specific styles in sparring can be tricky. The best way to see this is watching their traditional kata. This will mostly be a purer form of the particular style's nature (stance, power generation, distance, weapon and target preference and self-defense strategies).

In those styles which mostly developed in the sporting era, the kata and sparring more closely resemble each other. In Okinawan karate, the two will look much different.

For these reasons I don’t consider sparring to be representative of the nature of any particular style. Sparring is the expression of the style as it conforms to a certain rule set, so it is a coerced expression.

 

[Tez3]

if you say ”Brasilian Jujutsu” you are saying ”brasilian soft(gentle) method ”

but I agree, it sounds a little weird mixing with Japanese words that might be difficult to relate to

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Despite what the style is or isn't, I personally have never heard anyone call it 'the gentle art' in English and I've been doing BJJ (which is what we call it, just BJJ) for a couple of decades now.

 

[Same Trick59 10]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Despite what the style is or isn't, I personally have never heard anyone call it 'the gentle art' in English and I've been doing BJJ (which is what we call it, just BJJ) for a couple of decades now.

Thanks for the clarification !

Yes, in plain English it may sound a little as one doesn’t want it to sound so one keep with the Japanese word for gentle.

Do you actually say ”BJJ” when you speak about it ? I think it comes more easy to say ”Brasilian JuJutsu” than ”BJJ”, in writing the other way around.

 

[Darren1]

When I get interested in a style I tend to start researching it, and since Kobudo is from Karate, I started doing a little research on Karate. I realize that there are different styles of Karate, just like there are different styles of Taijiquan and Xingyiquan, but I was wondering what those differences were.

I only currently know one Karate Practitioner, who also has an extensive CMA background, as well as a Black Belt in BJJ. And the style he trains is Kyokushin, which I know is rather hard training. Years ago I use to train Yang Taijiquan with a Uechi-Ryu practitioner, but I have not seen him in years

But in researching I came across this, and I was wondering how accurate it was and what other resources are out there.

Comparison of karate styles

Also. prior to the list in the link, I had only heard of; Kyokushin, Goju-ryu, Isshin-ryu, Shotokan, Wado-ryun and Uechi-Ryu

i just jump right into the middle of the fire and find my way out.

 

[isshinryuronin4 3]

since Kobudo is from Karate,

Got into the part of your post re: karate sparring styles and neglected this point. While traditional Okinawan kobudo (sort of dying out post WWll) has been preserved to a great extent by karate largely thru the efforts of Taira Shinken in the mid 1950's and often practiced in parallel to it, IMO it's not really an inherent part of karate, but more of an add on - perhaps seen as an adopted child. This is the background as I know it.

The progenitors of karate (Shuri-te) were professional warriors such as Matsumura who in addition to empty hand combat were trained in several weapons including sword (not a part of Okinawan kobudo), bo and sai (from his years in China). Taira Shinken learned kobudo from a couple of Matsumura's students. Other weapons such as kama, tonfa, nunchaku and eku (oar) were used by farmers and fishermen with no formal empty hand combat training, but we can't know what that originally looked like. Modern kobudo includes both these lineages.

Nowadays kobudo has a lot in common with karate fundamentals and largely studied by those with karate training. But (I believe) can be studied as a separate art without prior karate training although those fundamentals must still be taught. There are weapon movements which are unique and not found in karate. There are three major schools/styles of kobudo with a full kobudo curriculum and belt system: Ryuuku and Matayoshi (both stemming from Matsumura) and Yamani (whose lineage I don't know beyond Master Agena).

forg

This is the hand forged Agena sai made by 9th dan Peter Carbone. They were formerly produced by several generations of the Miyahara family. With Hanshi Carbone's recent retirement from the craft, they are no longer made. Several top Okinawan masters own a pair. Mine are just like this - Sai that Bushi Matsumura himself would have loved.

 

[Tez3]

Thanks for the clarification !

Yes, in plain English it may sound a little as one doesn’t want it to sound so one keep with the Japanese word for gentle.

Do you actually say ”BJJ” when you speak about it ? I think it comes more easy to say ”Brasilian JuJutsu” than ”BJJ”, in writing the other way around.

Yes, we just say BJJ, in whatever accent we have.

 

[windwalker099114 144]

Got into the part of your post re: karate sparring styles and neglected this point. While traditional Okinawan kobudo (sort of dying out post WWll) has been preserved to a great extent by karate largely thru the efforts of Taira Shinken in the mid 1950's and often practiced in parallel to it, IMO it's not really an inherent part of karate, but more of an add on - perhaps seen as an adopted child. This is the background as I know it.

The progenitors of karate (Shuri-te) were professional warriors such as Matsumura who in addition to empty hand combat were trained in several weapons including sword (not a part of Okinawan kobudo), bo and sai (from his years in China). Taira Shinken learned kobudo from a couple of Matsumura's students. Other weapons such as kama, tonfa, nunchaku and eku (oar) were used by farmers and fishermen with no formal empty hand combat training, but we can't know what that originally looked like. Modern kobudo includes both these lineages.

Nowadays kobudo has a lot in common with karate fundamentals and largely studied by those with karate training. But (I believe) can be studied as a separate art without prior karate training although those fundamentals must still be taught. There are weapon movements which are unique and not found in karate. There are three major schools/styles of kobudo with a full kobudo curriculum and belt system: Ryuuku and Matayoshi (both stemming from Matsumura) and Yamani (whose lineage I don't know beyond Master Agena).

forgView attachment 34319
This is the hand forged Agena sai made by 9th dan Peter Carbone. They were formerly produced by several generations of the Miyahara family. With Hanshi Carbone's recent retirement from the craft, they are no longer made. Several top Okinawan masters own a pair. Mine are just like this - Sai that Bushi Matsumura himself would have loved.

A teacher I knew from long ago...demoing the "sai"

 

[wab25]

When I get interested in a style I tend to start researching it, and since Kobudo is from Karate, I started doing a little research on Karate. I realize that there are different styles of Karate, just like there are different styles of Taijiquan and Xingyiquan, but I was wondering what those differences were.

I only currently know one Karate Practitioner, who also has an extensive CMA background, as well as a Black Belt in BJJ. And the style he trains is Kyokushin, which I know is rather hard training. Years ago I use to train Yang Taijiquan with a Uechi-Ryu practitioner, but I have not seen him in years

But in researching I came across this, and I was wondering how accurate it was and what other resources are out there.

Comparison of karate styles

Also. prior to the list in the link, I had only heard of; Kyokushin, Goju-ryu, Isshin-ryu, Shotokan, Wado-ryun and Uechi-Ryu

Just a small comment on the original question....

I studied Shotokan Karate for about 15 years... Well, actually it was Kenkojuku Shotokan Karate.

Kenkojuku - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, I do know that at least for Shotokan, there are different styles within that main style. I would not be surprised if the other styles of Karate also had their own styles within as well.