Weightlifting for martial arts

[Kwan Jang]

So just how big are you? To be able to lift weight like that you must be huge.

There is an old video of me on page six of the members in motion forum. For most of my heavier lifts I was between 245-255 lbs at about 8 percent body fat. In the video, most shots I'm about 240. These days I am about 225-230. My joints at 50 just don't like the pounding it took to maintain that size, though the 10 reps at 700 lbs squats was recent and at this size.

 

[Kwan Jang]

I'd have to disagree. I've known many individuals with powerful looking bodies who lacked functional strength for specific tasks. But I would absolutely agree that a well designed weight training program is a great way to enhance functional strength. Work and health issues got me out of my program, and I really need to get back on track. So I'll just shut up now...

By the way, I'm a genetic freak too. -- But not in a good way.

It's obvious that some guys in the gym can train in a stupid manner (such as the trend called "functional training"). I'm referring to the style of training that many personal trainers are marketing to their clients now. One of the most classic forms of gym stupidity is to train to build your musculature outside the natural proportionatte and strength curves of the body (ex. Falling in love with bench and curls and never squatting so you can look like a lightbulb). If you train so that your muscles are not in their natural proportions to each other, of course it will negatively effect your athletic performance. My point is that a well designed bodybuilding program will do a far better job of developing functional strength than the goofy methods of the popular training fad of that name.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think ideas like "gym strength" and "core strength" or the currently popular notion of "functional strength" are ridiculous. It goes by the false notion that the strength developed by weight training is not functional.

It depends on whether someone cares about

- muscle group isolation, or
- body unification.

Here are few examples of "function strength" training. The important of the "function strength" training is when you move, your all body parts move at the same time. This can map to your MA training nicely. When you stop, your all body parts stop at the same time. This is quite different from the "bench press" approach that you only move your arms while the rest part of your body are not moving.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is my favor weight training tool. If you can twist a heavy object like this,

on the wrestling mat, you can easily twist your opponent down to the ground.

Today, I can use this machine to develop "arms twisting" too if I use both hands to hold on both handlers. When I did that in my gym, people always gave a strange look. I assume most people just use this machine to twist their waist instead.

 

[crazydiamond]

Another vote for the 5x5 system of strength training, although I have modified the 5x5 routine to deal with my own body needs and limitations. Also working out at home (with out a spotter) I strongly recommend a power rack with safety bars and a pullup bar. NY barbell makes good racks.

 

[Kwan Jang]

This is my favor weight training tool. If you can twist a heavy object like this,

on the wrestling mat, you can easily twist your opponent down to the ground.

Today, I can use this machine to develop "arms twisting" too if I use both hands to hold on both handlers. When I did that in my gym, people always gave a strange look. I assume most people just use this machine to twist their waist instead.

Thank you for a great example of people drinking the kool aid of functional strength training. I am not trying to be demeaning, but these snake oil salesmen in the fitness industry put out this garbage and bash what really would be effective for people with misinformation.

 

[Kwan Jang]

Thank you for a great example of people drinking the kool aid of functional strength training. I am not trying to be demeaning, but these snake oil salesmen in the fitness industry put out this garbage and bash what really would be effective for people with misinformation.

I don't have the time or inclination to get technical on this matter, but let me just say that I have both the educational and practical experience to both know what I am talking about and to know that most likely those who drink the kool aid are unlikely to be receptive even if I took the time and effort to provide unquestionable evidence. And they will usually resent your attempts to make it better for them .

 

[drop bear]

Thank you for a great example of people drinking the kool aid of functional strength training. I am not trying to be demeaning, but these snake oil salesmen in the fitness industry put out this garbage and bash what really would be effective for people with misinformation.

Yeah but that bowl thing on the other hand looks like serious business.

Are you putting out that all functional strength is a bad direction?

Or that people are jumping on the functional strength band wagon to sell garbage?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Thank you for a great example of people drinking the kool aid of functional strength training. I am not trying to be demeaning, but these snake oil salesmen in the fitness industry put out this garbage and bash what really would be effective for people with misinformation.

This weight training method had existed in China for a long time. It was recorded in Tong Zhongyi's (1879 – 1963) book "The Method of Chinese Wrestling" later on published by Auguest, 1974. The English translation book is also available and translated by Tim Cartmell.

Tong Zhongyi and his Shuai Jiao Masters of the IMA

It's also shown in Wang Fenting's "Shuai Chiao Training" published by January, 1968.

One can use a container like this and filled with water. It can be used to train:

- both arms twisting power,
- arms, waist, legs coordination,
- footwork.

 

[BeeBrian]

Anybody lift weights as a form of cross training for martial arts? I've heard some criticism from martial artists against weightlifting, that it can make you too big and too musclebound which can sometimes be detrimental in that it can slow you down and hamper your movement.

I competed in powerlifting and did some olympic-style lifting when I was a teen.

My opinion is that getting physically stronger, whether through lifting weights or magically becoming that way, will have a positive transfer in all full-contact combat sports. I think the biggest testament to this is the fact that Dana White will never pit BJ Penn with Brock Lesnar. Whoever wins will be a loss in UFC. If Brock wins, people will think he's a mean bully who picks on the weak. If BJ wins, people will never again pay for a PPV Brock Lesnar fight. I know there's no such thing as bad publicity, but there is such a thing as a boycott.

 

[Matt Bryers]

Anybody lift weights as a form of cross training for martial arts? I've heard some criticism from martial artists against weightlifting, that it can make you too big and too musclebound which can sometimes be detrimental in that it can slow you down and hamper your movement.

I do extensive strongman training, unconventional training (kettlebells, sandbags, etc) and bodyweight training to enhance my martial arts skills.

When I was competing in strongman, I had a huge increase in strength on the mat, but wasn't able to move as well. My strength became an asset, not my movement. When I switched back to more performance based training, I still maintained about 70-80% of my top-end strength, but also had the ability to move and perform on the mat.

On a side note: It is NOT easy putting on serious mass and size. I am a fairly big guy (around 230), but when competing in strongman I was around 270. It took me almost 8 months of hardcore training and EATING to gain that size. It is not easy.

So, if you add a solid strength training / performance training routine to your martial arts, I think you'll have great success.

 

[Buka]

Thank you for a great example of people drinking the kool aid of functional strength training. I am not trying to be demeaning, but these snake oil salesmen in the fitness industry put out this garbage and bash what really would be effective for people with misinformation.

I don't have the time or inclination to get technical on this matter, but let me just say that I have both the educational and practical experience to both know what I am talking about and to know that most likely those who drink the kool aid are unlikely to be receptive even if I took the time and effort to provide unquestionable evidence. And they will usually resent your attempts to make it better for them .

I find those posts rather abrasive, insulting even.

 

[BeeBrian]

I hope no one minds me butting in on this thread. I admit I really am a genetic freak, I was lifting more when I first started lifting than most do after years of training. I have done squats with 865 lbs for a triple 4 years ago and even did 10 reps with 700 just a three months ago at the age of 50. I have also done 545 for 4 reps in the bench. These are all "raw lifts" with no suits.

I fully believe that drug free bodybuilding along with cardio (which really is and should be part of BB) is by far THE best form of cross training a martial artist/fighter can do. I am talking about using various rep patterns on the major muscle groups using basic compound movements. Not the improper version of BB that people who use other training accuse BB of doing.

My experience has been the stronger I became, the better a fighter I was. It has greatly enhanced my athletic ability. I should mention that I do stretch and do cardio (though once again, this should be a part of natural BB anyhow), but the weight training/BB I do has only enhanced my speed, strength and agility

You squatted 865 for a triple in your mid forties? Raw?

Just making sure, this post was sarcastic, right?

I EAT professional powerlifters alive. I have a friend who squatted 720 pounds when he was in college. He doesn't know how much he can squat now during his forties, but I have witnessed him front squat 495 pounds for ten reps. When we get into a discussion about weightlifting and powerlifting however, I can topple what he knows with what I know.

It wouldn't take long for me to figure out if you're trolling or not. lol.

 

[PhotonGuy]

You squatted 865 for a triple in your mid forties? Raw?

Just making sure, this post was sarcastic, right?

I EAT professional powerlifters alive. I have a friend who squatted 720 pounds when he was in college. He doesn't know how much he can squat now during his forties, but I have witnessed him front squat 495 pounds for ten reps. When we get into a discussion about weightlifting and powerlifting however, I can topple what he knows with what I know.

It wouldn't take long for me to figure out if you're trolling or not. lol.

40s isn't old, certainly not in this day and age. There is no reason somebody in their 40s shouldn't be at their prime if they keep on training.

 

[drop bear]

40s isn't old, certainly not in this day and age. There is no reason somebody in their 40s shouldn't be at their prime if they keep on training.

A 400kilo squat is kind of a big deal.

 

[BeeBrian]

40s isn't old, certainly not in this day and age. There is no reason somebody in their 40s shouldn't be at their prime if they keep on training.

If you're a competitive lifter who takes lifting seriously and happen to have the genes of Shrek, then yes, a 800+ pound raw squat at age 40 is doable.

But there is no such thing as a 40 year old weekend warrior who has enough time to post on a forum to be that strong. You need to compensate extreme training devotion in order to be a tough old man.

If he is really what he claims to be, then I'd like to see him post a video of him squatting 500 for 3 rapid reps. Surely he'd be able to do it.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Anybody lift weights as a form of cross training for martial arts? I've heard some criticism from martial artists against weightlifting, that it can make you too big and too musclebound which can sometimes be detrimental in that it can slow you down and hamper your movement.

For building strength, weights, either body or free, are essential. I personally use kettlebells (2x 18-lbb, 2x 26-lb, 2x 35-lb, 1x 53lb) for building strength and cardio, and toning muscles along the way.

Weight training is essential for the pulls and pushes you will have to make in the martial arts, so long as you remember as you are training for the martial arts, and not to become a power-lifter/bodybuilder.

 

[whitebeltforever]

hi everyone was just looking for exercise, body shape and weights advice pls?

PART 1: how much weight should a chick lift? i'm pretty heavy 83kgs, and i can only lift about 9kgs in an overhead arm type press and only 100kgs max in leg press.

PART 2: i read this article (insanely scientifically flawed but makes some practical sense to my own experience) that said that body shape can determine suitability of exercises/sports (i know i know it's really outdated but tru for me), and it basically talked about what's already true for me which is that for my body/combined body shape/type (i'm like a viking in comparison to other asian girls i know lol) that high energy cardio (like 1hr of high energy, jumping around aerobics class) isn't as suitable as strong bursts of powerful energy workouts (like martial arts) with weights and swimming for my type. which made all my life's exercise experience made sense all of a sudden, i would often feel light headed, trembly, fatigued and weak after intense aerobics but after doing weights or recently, martial arts, i feel more energised..

so i experimented. last week i thought i was in the best health for a really long time (i have an autoimmune illness and trying to build up my health again because in recent years its been on the decline) and so i joined a zumba class. now, normally i can keep up for about 40mins. after that it's a serious struggle. but that day i lasted the whole class and didn't feel like collapsing until after about 50mins of the 1hr class, which is a huge diff for me, but still i felt trembly afterwards etc. then this week i did 15mins of warm ups and about 30mins of weights on the weight machines, which is unusually long for me because i've always been told to burn fat burn fat with cardio cardio cardio lol (im inexperienced with free weights, if u hav any tips for me that would b great ), and afterwards i went swimming for another 15mins. which all adds up to an hour of course but if i include rest and stretching breaks it would be about 45mins i guess. but it's been several hours after my workout now and i feel energised, focused and not fatigued, weak or light headed. i know there are a lot of confounding variables and it's not that scientific but i think this feels right for me, which explains why i could never ever in my whole life do what i thought was exercise, which was high energy cardio. i noticed the "body type" phenomenon also after about a month of karate. it makes me feel energise and focused afterwards. i can never ever run much, and feel like im about to die if i do aerobics any more than 2 times a week and often it will trigger my illness.

has anyone else had similar experiences with this? and if you can give me some tips for the gym in terms of weights that would b fantastic
thanks!

Just Your Type Experience Life
The Ultimate Female Training Guide Specific Proven Methods to Get Lean And Sexy SimplyShredded.com

 

[toddfletcher]

I started Olympic Weight Lifting recently. It has definitely improved my fighting. Overall body strength and quickness of muscle movement. NOTE: I have had to increase my flexibility training to counter what seems to be a bit of tightening.