Wearing your BB from one art to the dojo of a different one?

[Blade96]

I had a question. Some weeks ago, a dude I'll call Brian, came to try some shotokan. Bryan is a completely new to shotokan - didnt know blocks, punch, even any kata. Like all new students, he needs to be taught. However, he has a BB from a different type of Karate. On his first night, he wore his white gi and his BB to our class and dojo. I did comment on it......cause i'd never seen it before....a person completely new to shotokan who wears his BB from a completely different MA. still karate, but its different. (not kenpo though. I'd remember what it was if it was kenpo.) actually in shotokan he's a white belt. he did see that I had a point. And he's a really good, friendly, nice guy. =] I didn't say much....decided, rightfully, we both did, to let my senseis decide what to do with him as i trust them completely and I always defer to them on everything. They're in charge. to let him wear his BB or to bump him to white belt. I never said anything about it after. Its not our place.

I was wondering though, Is it right to wear a BB from one type of MA that you earned, to another dojo and a completely different MA with a different association where you are a white belt?

Not my place to decide, I was wondering, therefore, what you think about it? What would you do? should he have worn his BB? Is it right?

 

[Carol]

Actually...it doesn't sound like he is a white belt in Shotokan. It sounds like he was just there visiting. A white belt usually means that the student has agreed to begin formal training.

It is not unusual for a student to visit another school wearing a rank and/or a uniform from another school or art. Many instructors prefer that as they would rather have a trained guest representing themselves to the class as a trained fighter, and not an untrained white belt. Others would prefer something neutral such as athletic clothes or a plain uniform.

If the instructor has a need for a dress code that applies to visitors also, then it is the instructor's responsibility to communicate that requirement when arranging the visit. It can be polite to ask in advance about a dress code, but it is incumbent on the instructor to set the expectations of his/her guests.

 

[ap Oweyn]

He didn't know how to block or punch?

What form of karate do you earn a black belt in without knowing how to do those two things?

My exposure to shotokan is pretty limited, but I don't remember any blocks I wasn't already taught in taekwondo. And the reverse punch is essentially the same.

Not knowing shotokan's kata is one thing.

 

[Blade96]

Actually...it doesn't sound like he is a white belt in Shotokan. It sounds like he was just there visiting. A white belt usually means that the student has agreed to begin formal training.

It is not unusual for a student to visit another school wearing a rank and/or a uniform from another school or art. Many instructors prefer that as they would rather have a trained guest representing themselves to the class as a trained fighter, and not an untrained white belt. Others would prefer something neutral such as athletic clothes or a plain uniform.

If the instructor has a need for a dress code that applies to visitors also, then it is the instructor's responsibility to communicate that requirement when arranging the visit. It can be polite to ask in advance about a dress code, but it is incumbent on the instructor to set the expectations of his/her guests.

I swear it, he wasnt a visitor. He told me and my brown belt friends, and our sensei, he was there to try some shotokan. to see ifhe liked it. he was coming to classes and he'd always have his BB on. He told our sensei he didnt have a clue about shotokan his BB was from another style. I was standing nearby during class so i heard everything they said.

He didn't know how to block or punch?

What form of karate do you earn a black belt in without knowing how to do those two things?

My exposure to shotokan is pretty limited, but I don't remember any blocks I wasn't already taught in taekwondo. And the reverse punch is essentially the same.

Not knowing shotokan's kata is one thing.

I swear it. as I said. In class we'd go through each starting with seiken zuki, then age uke, and so on, also some shutos, going through each one while counting to ten in Japanese. He didnt know them. and he was next to me, and in class I'm aware of what's going on around me. This fellow couldnt do them and sensei had to help him out. Because he didnt know them. I know he could punch and block. But they werent shotokan punch and block. He told our sensei he didnt know any Shotokan and his BB was from a different type of karate.

so I was wondering, Is it right to show up to a class you're thinking of doing, where you're not familiar with the art, wearing your BB from a different MA?

 

[dbell]

In my school, if you have a BB in another art, I give you on your first day (provided you told me in advance that you were coming) a white belt with a black stripe down the center (length wise) to let other students know that you are a BB in another style, but a white belt at my school. As you progress in my school, you get a black stripe in the next belt, etc.

If I was to go to a school (and I've done this many times) of a style I'm not belted in, I may use my Gi (I have no patches on it anyway), and if they wear belts I put on a white belt. I do that out of courtesy to that art, as I am not ranked in that art.

 

[Stac3y]

In my school, BBs from other styles wear their own belts, but line up according to where they fall in knowing our curriculum. Under belts wear belts reflecting their knowledge of our curriculum.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

In my school, if you have a BB in another art, I give you on your first day (provided you told me in advance that you were coming) a white belt with a black stripe down the center (length wise) to let other students know that you are a BB in another style, but a white belt at my school. As you progress in my school, you get a black stripe in the next belt, etc.

If I was to go to a school (and I've done this many times) of a style I'm not belted in, I may use my Gi (I have no patches on it anyway), and if they wear belts I put on a white belt. I do that out of courtesy to that art, as I am not ranked in that art.

That is an interesting way to show respect for their other bb, by giving them a rank with a black stripe.

I would never show up to another training hall in another style with my black belt, as I believe it is disrespectful. Furthermore, black belts in a training hall have responsibilities, and it is obvious that a person with no experience in that particular art could not fulfill those responsibilities. I.e. help lower ranks with techniques, terminology, philosophy, etc.. . You are misrepresenting yourself by wearing a bb from another art in a training hall of another, IMHO.

You may be a bb in another style, but in this training hall you are a white belt/beginner like everyone else that starts. You may pick up on things more quickly, but then again you may not.. .

If this situation arose in my Dojang, I would talk privately with the new student and explain these points and would not let him wear his bb from another style while training inside the dojang.

 

[jks9199]

It depends on the context. I've been to seminars and trainings where I was either a guest or participant, and worn my uniform and black belt. Everyone's there to train -- but not teach a new style. But if I were to go somewhere as a new student of that style -- I'd wear a white belt.

It gets more complicated in more closely related styles, like different branches of karate or TKD. After all, there aren't huge differences between some of them -- more the sequence of kata and some specific techniques or principles. In a case like that, it's something the instructors will have to assess and determine. I've been known to start someone with a black belt in another style as a green belt instead of white belt, just to recognize that they aren't a raw beginner.

 

[punisher73]

Each instructor will have their own opinion and what others say really don't matter in the final say.

That being said, he is not ranked in Shotokan and from the sounds of it, the style he is familiar with is different enough to not transfer readily to the new art. He needs to put ego aside if he truly wants to learn a new art, and look at it from a beginners standpoint.

I liked the suggestion about having a blackstripe down the belt to denote prior training and rank on a student. This helps others in the class not see a white belt out performing them or catching on quickly and becoming discouraged.

I also like the idea if the art is very similiar (different lineage or organization, but same style) having them test through the curriculum and awarding rank for where they are at with the new stuff.

 

[just2kicku]

I think, unless the instructor tells you to wear your belt, you don't wear it. I would not walk into a kenpo school and put my BB on, I would tell the the instructor of prior experience and let him decide.
To just wear your BB to another school of a different system does two things, 1) shows disrespect, and 2) makes the other BB's in that school want to see how good you really are. At least that's how it works in Kaju

 

[Drac]

I think, unless the instructor tells you to wear your belt, you don't wear it. I would not walk into a kenpo school and put my BB on, I would tell the the instructor of prior experience and let him decide.
To just wear your BB to another school of a different system does two things, 1) shows disrespect, and 2) makes the other BB's in that school want to see how good you really are. At least that's how it works in Kaju

Well said...

 

[Carol]

Granted I am not a black belt, but personally I usually ask if athletic clothes are OK when making arrangements to visit another school. If so, I wear a t-shirt and workout pants that don't have markings on them, which makes wearing a belt irrelevant.

I ask this for practical reasons. If I plan a visit to another person's school, it is generally because I am on travel and don't have (or, I don't want to pack) a gi in my luggage.

 

[Nolerama]

We had a BB that said he was a Judo player. He rolled okay, but we all felt he was no Judo BB. It turned out he was a green in Judo and a BB in TKD...

I think if you're visiting and want to wear your belt, it should be at least in the same range (striking/clinch/ground/weps). And at least make that known.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Like jks9199 said if you have been invited in to teach or are attending a seminar at a training hall then wearing your belt should be fine. However in general when attempting to learn a new system you should start from the bottom and work your way up! If they have a ranking system then showing up and being prepared to wear a white belt and doing so shows that you are serious. Personally it is always refreshing to wear a white belt and learn from a competent instructor.

 

[Big Don]

At our school, my sifu explained, just the other night as a matter of fact, that someone with a rank in another art is welcome to wear that rank until their first test with us. After that, they wear a yellow belt and progress the same as everyone else.

 

[72ronin]

You basically dont do it.

You wear your gi pants and a t-shirt and take along your certificates for the instructor to view.

Interested in how he couldnt pick up the movements for blocking? He had no forward stance or back stance in his old club?
His old club had no kata? Yet he has a gi and belt and says hes done karate? even a freestyle in my area that only uses open hand parries and a loose boxing stance still has a couple of kata (niahanchi-sanchin-tensho)
required for black belt...

Nevermind, i dont think he'll be wearing it for long

 

[jks9199]

Something else I've seen done in seminar-type settings is to skip the belt all together; we've used "humility ropes" in place of a belt, instead. A simple white rope, worn around the waist as reminder to set the ego aside, and concentrate on the learning...

 

[Blade96]

You basically dont do it.

You wear your gi pants and a t-shirt and take along your certificates for the instructor to view.

Interested in how he couldnt pick up the movements for blocking? He had no forward stance or back stance in his old club?
His old club had no kata? Yet he has a gi and belt and says hes done karate? even a freestyle in my area that only uses open hand parries and a loose boxing stance still has a couple of kata (niahanchi-sanchin-tensho)
required for black belt...

Nevermind, i dont think he'll be wearing it for long

nope, didnt pick up the movements for blocking. I watched as sensei moved his arms to place them in right position for shuto - uke. He didnt know it. and about kata, sensei wanted us all - of all the belt colors - to work on heian shodan. Because this fellow didnt know it, (its ok someone, i forget who, said not knowing shotokan's katas is a bit of a different matter) he went with the other brand new beginners so a BB could show it to them, while I stayed in my place and worked on it with everyone else.

I wouldnt wear a belt I earned from one art and wear it to another art! I'm getting tested for my yellow belt soon. If I took that and wore it to a kenpo school - and I'm not ranked in Kenpo. I only did that art for 2 months. I especially wouldnt do it though if I had a black belt. I wasnt sure what to think of it - but reading over the replies here, i think yes. disrespectful.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I was wondering though, Is it right to wear a BB from one type of MA that you earned, to another dojo and a completely different MA with a different association where you are a white belt?

Generally speaking, no it is not.

It's one thing to go to a seminar in a different style and wear your rank. Or visit a school for a few classes if you are on vacation and there are no schools close by affiliated with your organization or your style. But if you are beginning to train in a new style then you are a beginning student in that style and, as such, you are a white belt. You have earned dan ranking in a different style, not the one in which you are now training.

Back in the day in Okinawa people would go to different teachers to learn different kata, different weapons, different techniques, etc. That was before 1) the various styles of karate were designated by more than the name of the village they were associated with, and 2) before the kyu/dan ranking system was developed in Japan and was cross-polinated to Okinawa. As such it was a little easier to do what you describe because people generally didn't need to "worry" about what rank they held in what style (both of those things really didn't exist).

But that was then. This is now. And if you have a first dan in any style of MA you should have already developed enough courtesy to at least ask the instructor of the school you're going to be joining what they want you to do. From what you said in a few of your later posts I'm not even sure this gentleman told your instructor he was going to be a new student. That might be OK if you have not had any MA training before and the program is run through a YMCA or community center or something but if you have any sort of experience in MA you should realize that the least you can do is inform the instructor you'll be in the next class. When you do that you could take 5 seconds and mention any previous MA training and rank you have if you want. Frankly, it's not necessarily going to be relevant in every situation. ("Oh you leanred Judo? Great. We don't do a lot of throws here in Kyudo class...")

Part of MA training is developing a certain sense of propriety. By first dan this should have been a non-issue.

Pax,

Chris

 

[sgtmac_46]

If you have a BB in a different style, why would you want to wear it to a school of a different style? In fact, if I go to a different school, I don't volunteer that I know anything about anything. Give me a white belt and lets go from there.

The bottom line is that a belt doesn't grant you any kind of ability. And wearing a BB in a place you haven't been acknowledged to have earned it merely paints you as a poser.