What contradiction? Chaplains are noncombatants.
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Was Jesus married?
- Thread starter granfire
- Start date
What contradiction? Chaplains are noncombatants.
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Ours are Church of England and Church of Scotland so religion rarely comes into it, CofE especially isn't very into preaching etc, it's what you'd call a gentlemanly religion, that G-d is an Englishman is taken for granted so there's very little talk of religious stuff with them. They get embarrssed when a firebrand pops up every so often. It was always the tradition that the youngest sons of gentlemen became vicars ( the oldest inherited the estate, the next joined the army and the next joined the church). C of S is a bit more peppery but none try to convert. It's just not done, the British army is definitely not a religious one.
I met a Catholic Chaplain in Saudi that really helped me work through some childhood issues. He was interested, engaged, and above all a great listener. He used to come visit me on post, bring me coffee, help me while away the long desert night.
I was a lay leader at my last unit a kind of untrained shipboard chaplain.
I was a lay leader at my last unit a kind of untrained shipboard chaplain.
jasonbrinn
Purple Belt
Look people can come on here and make fun and post things like this is 'the most blah blah blah" that they want. It changes nothing.
God, Jesus (the Word) and the Holy Spirit were together from the beginning of time. God created the first man and woman. When sin entered the world the plan for the salvation of man began. The plight and stories of the Jews throughout history including their scriptures are the story of God's plan for salvation and Jesus is the hero of it. All of scripture points to Jesus. The Bible is ONLY about Jesus and Jesus is the only thing that is meant by the Bible. The Law is meant to show men and the world that they are dead eternally in sin without Jesus.
You run to and fro gathering information but never gaining in knowledge. You people who claim lineages to the fold and even having worked in the ministry need to clear yourselves as I am doing. Stand for what you know is true or either learn the Truth today.
All people will bow their knee and stand one day before king Jesus to make an account for how they dealt with him. Jesus's sacrifice on the cross and his blood wil make you right forever with God. There is NO other way to the father except through Jesus. God sent Jesus so that all people might be saved. All you need to do is to call on Jesus and you will be saved.
Please stand on notice that the Truth has been told to all of you now and you will not have any excuses on that day. I wash my hands of this issue and anyone who chooses to willfully act in rebellion against the gospels, God and Jesus Christ.
Jason Brinn
God, Jesus (the Word) and the Holy Spirit were together from the beginning of time. God created the first man and woman. When sin entered the world the plan for the salvation of man began. The plight and stories of the Jews throughout history including their scriptures are the story of God's plan for salvation and Jesus is the hero of it. All of scripture points to Jesus. The Bible is ONLY about Jesus and Jesus is the only thing that is meant by the Bible. The Law is meant to show men and the world that they are dead eternally in sin without Jesus.
You run to and fro gathering information but never gaining in knowledge. You people who claim lineages to the fold and even having worked in the ministry need to clear yourselves as I am doing. Stand for what you know is true or either learn the Truth today.
All people will bow their knee and stand one day before king Jesus to make an account for how they dealt with him. Jesus's sacrifice on the cross and his blood wil make you right forever with God. There is NO other way to the father except through Jesus. God sent Jesus so that all people might be saved. All you need to do is to call on Jesus and you will be saved.
Please stand on notice that the Truth has been told to all of you now and you will not have any excuses on that day. I wash my hands of this issue and anyone who chooses to willfully act in rebellion against the gospels, God and Jesus Christ.
Jason Brinn
I've been a chaplain assistant for 12 years. I'd say I have worked in the ministry.
Don't try and shift it. You said Jews have been using Christian scriptures. You're wrong. It is really that simple. Just admit it.
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Don't try and shift it. You said Jews have been using Christian scriptures. You're wrong. It is really that simple. Just admit it.
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The Last Legionary
All warfare is based on deception.<br><b>nemo malu
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
*Picks up phone*
*Calls Jesus*
Come on, come on, pick up. Ah! Jesus! Hey, it's Keil. Yeah I know you have Caller ID. I know it's been a while since we last spoke, but I was over on MartialTalk. You know it? Really? Thats you? I would never have guessed. Cool handle. Anyway, I know you're busy but I was over on MT and this new guy Jason Brinn popped up in a thread about if you were ever married and made a few comments, and I thought I'd call and get it direct from you. Oh? Really? A restraining order? For what? You're kidding me? He did that on your sandals? Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. Did it come off? Uh huh. Told him you just want to be friends but he wouldn't take 'no' for an answer? Tried to explain the Bible to him but he kept getting it wrong? Really? No, I would never have gotten that idea from reading his posts. Oh, all right, you got me on that one. You know when I'm fibbing. Well, been good chatting with you, next Saturday we're having a BBQ, why not stop by if you're free? Great. Bring some wine though, Horas and Ra are supposed to bring some but you know how they are. See you then.
OP
OP
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
:lfao:
I understand that you believe this, but do you understand that this is kind of offensive to those of us who don't?
I don't "claim" anything, including being a Christian, Jason. I've seen insulting and offensive dreck like your post used by so-called "Christians"to manipulate, marginalize and ostracize people all of my life. :angry: So, I'll leave you with some Gospel quotes:
Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 7: 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Mt 7:15 Jesus said to his disciples: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing,but underneath are ravenous wolves.
Matthew 24: 4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, and will deceive many. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people
And one especially appropriate for a mail-order martial arts teacher:
Matthew 7: 16-20 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them."
Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 7: 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Mt 7:15 Jesus said to his disciples: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing,but underneath are ravenous wolves.
Matthew 24: 4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, and will deceive many. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people
And one especially appropriate for a mail-order martial arts teacher:
Matthew 7: 16-20 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them."
It's not necessarily inoffensive to those of us with similar but less absolute beliefs, either...
"I tried talking to Jesus,
but He put me on hold-
said He was swamped with calls this week,
and could not shake his cold...."
:lfao:
I'm just back form an entire day in synagogue, and may still be a bit ounchy from a 25 hour fast, but I've read Tanach, in the original language, a number of times. And nowhere is thre any mention of Jesus. Anywhere. In texts that predate Jesus by at least 500 years.
I'm not acting in rebellion against G-d. I'm following His Mitzhvot.
Uh... attack the message not the sender. Now let me catch my breath from laughing too hard.
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"The number you are trying to reach has been disconnected or is not in service."
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OP
OP
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
I think he had caller ID...
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Full disclosure, I have no religious beliefs in this area at all, I did not have a religious upbringing, other than my own personal research and study, but this area (historically verified facts, doctrines from various faiths, and so on) has been an interest of mine for a very long time. And with that, as I prefer actual discussion to closed off rhetoric and evangelical postulating...
Well, you're right. Saying that your statement was the most asinine, the most blatantly incorrect, the most ill-informed doesn't change anything. Your statement was still the most ill-informed, blatantly incorrect, and asinine seen. Even if it wasn't called out as such, it would still be. Then again, there is power in recognition... but you thinking it is "making fun", or incorrect as well doesn't change things either. You're still completely demonstrably incorrect.
This is a theological belief, Jason, not a statement of fact. The fact that you don't seem to be able to differentiate between those two states of being doesn't make it any less so.
No, the stories of the Jewish people throughout history (as told through their scriptures and other sources) tell of their relationship with God, some parts of it are stories of past, some parts are prophecy of future comings, and none of it specifically deals with Jesus (from a Jewish perspective). There are prophecies of a Messiah, but that's not taken as Jesus in the Jewish faith, therefore you cannot state that the Jewish scriptures have "Jesus (as) the hero of (them)".
Now, here's the fun part.... you do realize, of course, that what we have as the New Testament books (and other gospels and apocryphal stories) are not eye witness accounts, yeah? They were written for a particular agenda, which altered depending on the target audience and the time and context of the surrounding world, and part of those agendas included sculpting and altering the narrative to fit the prophecies? I mean, the whole thing with the census was not historically correct, the dates are completely wrong, certain historical figures are used in ways that don't fit historical accounts (which King Herod is being referenced, for instance?), locations were changed, timing was changed, reasons and events were changed, the lineage of Jesus was constructed to give him a direct line from King David, although there isn't much evidence outside of the self-supporting claims found within such documents, and so on. As a result, the only way you can say that all of scripture points to Jesus is if you change the events of Jesus' life to fit scripture, in order to create the effect that "all of scripture points to Jesus".
In other words, no.
Really? How are you going to back that one up, Jason? Book of Job? Book of Exodus? Lots of good people there, true followers of Gods Word, going from Abraham through Moses and on... but because they had the misfortune of predating Jesus' life, they are dead eternally in sin? Does that sound like a loving and reasonable God to you? And how does the story of Job, for instance, have anything to do with Jesus? It's not even really dealing with sin, it's about human limits to acceptance, and what happens when faith is tested... nothing to do with Jesus, when it comes down to it.
And while the Christian interpretation of the spiritual doctrines known as the Bible is dominantly about the message of Jesus Christ, that doesn't mean that the entire thing is only about Him.
Well, as "knowledge" is the gathering and pooling of information, I'm pretty sure the pithy comment you were going for was that people "run to and fro gathering information but never gaining in wisdom"... but that's an aside. More importantly, you seem to be grabbing hold of a single idea, and not allowing yourself outside of it... which leads, not only to a lack of wisdom, but also a lack of knowledge and information.
There's a lot of things that you seem to think everyone else should do, Jason, and you have been less than convincing in any of them. Evangelical preaching really isn't what this place is for. For confirmation of that, see the TOS, specifially:
Note the underlined.
But what is Truth? Is Truth unchanging Law? We both have Truths, are mine the same as yours?
In other words, what you're espousing here conflicts badly with what I understand to be true. I find it impossible to take something as "true" when the only evidence it has to rely on is itself. There is no testing of religious truths, therefore they are subjective, and, to my mind, only a "truth" in terms of a persons individual relationship with themselves, and any deity they may believe in. Now, you can have your truth, but you really need to understand that your truth is only THE TRUTH when it comes to you... to me, it's a strong belief you hold that I have no basis or need to have myself.
And what would happen if He turned to you and asked why you denied his Jewish heritage? Or if you don't stand before Him at all... Again, Jason, this is purely a matter of belief for you. The only evidence is that those who believe it think this is what will happen.
If it happened, if he existed, and if what is claimed by Christian texts is correct. There's a lot more "if's", but there's no need to clutter this up too much...
Which is a Christian ideal, not a universal one. It's not even a universal ideal throughout the various faiths that worship the same God. It's great you have faith, but dude, you're sounding like a crazy missionary at this point...
According to people who wrote stories well after Jesus died, who never met Him, and decided to make claims of what He did, what He said, and more. Every time you get a comment of "Jesus said...", the reality is "how do you know?" Because the only evidence we have is that people who never met Him put the words in His mouth.
No excuses, but then again, to me, none of this is the truth... so I don't have much concern, when it all comes down to it.
Jason Brinn[/QUOTE]
Good for you. You make a good Pontius Pilate... of course, you do realize that the way Pilate is portrayed in the Gospels, even down to the ceremony of releasing a prisoner at Passover, has no real correlation with historical accounts or facts, yeah?
Of course, I don't think I'm "acting willfully in rebellion against the Gospels, God, and Jesus Christ", as I don't see anything there to act willfully against. To me, there is no God, Jesus, if He existed, was just a person who was a charismatic leader of a particular group of Jewish people around two thousand years ago, who has been blown out of all proportion for a variety of reasons (showmanship among them... did you know that the first real followers of Jesus, those that actually knew him, didn't have anything about miracles, resurrections, being the Son of God, or anything else, and it was a separate group, whose connection was the leader of the group claiming to have seen a vision of Jesus, although he never met him, that came to be the basis of the Christianity we know today? Basically, they had a more appealing story with better tricks and a lot more showmanship, and that's why they "won"... nothing to do with historical accuracy, or even connection...), and the Gospels are deliberately chosen texts to convey an agenda, rather than the single, universal truth of anything.
If you want a more complete understanding of the differing portrayals of Jesus, read the Qu'ran (which focuses far more on Jesus' Mother than the Bible does... say, here's a question, who is referred to as the "Immaculate Conception", in the older forms of the story? Here's a hint: It's not Jesus), the Ethiopian Bible, which includes longer forms of Genesis, among other texts, the so-called apocryphal texts, and more. You'll find stories of Jesus as a child, which aren't in your Bible at all, including him getting upset with another kid, and killing him, creating clay birds, the seemingly forgetting them, allowing them all to die, we get to see a temper on the young Jesus, and more (so your claim earlier of the Bible containing all of Jesus' life was blatantly incorrect... and held a lot of leaps of logic which has no support in the texts themselves, which you were called on, but couldn't answer...). At the moment, you're spouting rhetoric without the knowledge of the larger picture that others have. Your faith is wonderful... but it's not the only expression of Christianity, nor indeed necessarily the "right" one for most. You really should accept that.
As to the thrust of the thread, whether Jesus had a wife, personally I think that He would have had one. I'd be rather surprised if He didn't, really. When we have arguments of "well, where's the reference?", the thing to remember is that it would have been considered such a normal, expected part of His life that there'd be no point. On the other hand, if He wasn't married, at the age of 30, that would have been worthy of note. We could also point out that the stories we have of His life are rather scant, a series of short episodes, many of which take place as he is out ministering, so it's entirely likely that, unless the wife was Mary Magdalene, she wouldn't have needed to be mentioned at all. And even if it was Mary (very plausible), mentioning her as His wife isn't really needed either...
Right, I think that's it for now.
Well, you're right. Saying that your statement was the most asinine, the most blatantly incorrect, the most ill-informed doesn't change anything. Your statement was still the most ill-informed, blatantly incorrect, and asinine seen. Even if it wasn't called out as such, it would still be. Then again, there is power in recognition... but you thinking it is "making fun", or incorrect as well doesn't change things either. You're still completely demonstrably incorrect.
This is a theological belief, Jason, not a statement of fact. The fact that you don't seem to be able to differentiate between those two states of being doesn't make it any less so.
No, the stories of the Jewish people throughout history (as told through their scriptures and other sources) tell of their relationship with God, some parts of it are stories of past, some parts are prophecy of future comings, and none of it specifically deals with Jesus (from a Jewish perspective). There are prophecies of a Messiah, but that's not taken as Jesus in the Jewish faith, therefore you cannot state that the Jewish scriptures have "Jesus (as) the hero of (them)".
Now, here's the fun part.... you do realize, of course, that what we have as the New Testament books (and other gospels and apocryphal stories) are not eye witness accounts, yeah? They were written for a particular agenda, which altered depending on the target audience and the time and context of the surrounding world, and part of those agendas included sculpting and altering the narrative to fit the prophecies? I mean, the whole thing with the census was not historically correct, the dates are completely wrong, certain historical figures are used in ways that don't fit historical accounts (which King Herod is being referenced, for instance?), locations were changed, timing was changed, reasons and events were changed, the lineage of Jesus was constructed to give him a direct line from King David, although there isn't much evidence outside of the self-supporting claims found within such documents, and so on. As a result, the only way you can say that all of scripture points to Jesus is if you change the events of Jesus' life to fit scripture, in order to create the effect that "all of scripture points to Jesus".
In other words, no.
Really? How are you going to back that one up, Jason? Book of Job? Book of Exodus? Lots of good people there, true followers of Gods Word, going from Abraham through Moses and on... but because they had the misfortune of predating Jesus' life, they are dead eternally in sin? Does that sound like a loving and reasonable God to you? And how does the story of Job, for instance, have anything to do with Jesus? It's not even really dealing with sin, it's about human limits to acceptance, and what happens when faith is tested... nothing to do with Jesus, when it comes down to it.
And while the Christian interpretation of the spiritual doctrines known as the Bible is dominantly about the message of Jesus Christ, that doesn't mean that the entire thing is only about Him.
Well, as "knowledge" is the gathering and pooling of information, I'm pretty sure the pithy comment you were going for was that people "run to and fro gathering information but never gaining in wisdom"... but that's an aside. More importantly, you seem to be grabbing hold of a single idea, and not allowing yourself outside of it... which leads, not only to a lack of wisdom, but also a lack of knowledge and information.
There's a lot of things that you seem to think everyone else should do, Jason, and you have been less than convincing in any of them. Evangelical preaching really isn't what this place is for. For confirmation of that, see the TOS, specifially:
AdminTeam said:
Note the underlined.
But what is Truth? Is Truth unchanging Law? We both have Truths, are mine the same as yours?
In other words, what you're espousing here conflicts badly with what I understand to be true. I find it impossible to take something as "true" when the only evidence it has to rely on is itself. There is no testing of religious truths, therefore they are subjective, and, to my mind, only a "truth" in terms of a persons individual relationship with themselves, and any deity they may believe in. Now, you can have your truth, but you really need to understand that your truth is only THE TRUTH when it comes to you... to me, it's a strong belief you hold that I have no basis or need to have myself.
And what would happen if He turned to you and asked why you denied his Jewish heritage? Or if you don't stand before Him at all... Again, Jason, this is purely a matter of belief for you. The only evidence is that those who believe it think this is what will happen.
If it happened, if he existed, and if what is claimed by Christian texts is correct. There's a lot more "if's", but there's no need to clutter this up too much...
Which is a Christian ideal, not a universal one. It's not even a universal ideal throughout the various faiths that worship the same God. It's great you have faith, but dude, you're sounding like a crazy missionary at this point...
According to people who wrote stories well after Jesus died, who never met Him, and decided to make claims of what He did, what He said, and more. Every time you get a comment of "Jesus said...", the reality is "how do you know?" Because the only evidence we have is that people who never met Him put the words in His mouth.
No excuses, but then again, to me, none of this is the truth... so I don't have much concern, when it all comes down to it.
Jason Brinn[/QUOTE]
Good for you. You make a good Pontius Pilate... of course, you do realize that the way Pilate is portrayed in the Gospels, even down to the ceremony of releasing a prisoner at Passover, has no real correlation with historical accounts or facts, yeah?
Of course, I don't think I'm "acting willfully in rebellion against the Gospels, God, and Jesus Christ", as I don't see anything there to act willfully against. To me, there is no God, Jesus, if He existed, was just a person who was a charismatic leader of a particular group of Jewish people around two thousand years ago, who has been blown out of all proportion for a variety of reasons (showmanship among them... did you know that the first real followers of Jesus, those that actually knew him, didn't have anything about miracles, resurrections, being the Son of God, or anything else, and it was a separate group, whose connection was the leader of the group claiming to have seen a vision of Jesus, although he never met him, that came to be the basis of the Christianity we know today? Basically, they had a more appealing story with better tricks and a lot more showmanship, and that's why they "won"... nothing to do with historical accuracy, or even connection...), and the Gospels are deliberately chosen texts to convey an agenda, rather than the single, universal truth of anything.
If you want a more complete understanding of the differing portrayals of Jesus, read the Qu'ran (which focuses far more on Jesus' Mother than the Bible does... say, here's a question, who is referred to as the "Immaculate Conception", in the older forms of the story? Here's a hint: It's not Jesus), the Ethiopian Bible, which includes longer forms of Genesis, among other texts, the so-called apocryphal texts, and more. You'll find stories of Jesus as a child, which aren't in your Bible at all, including him getting upset with another kid, and killing him, creating clay birds, the seemingly forgetting them, allowing them all to die, we get to see a temper on the young Jesus, and more (so your claim earlier of the Bible containing all of Jesus' life was blatantly incorrect... and held a lot of leaps of logic which has no support in the texts themselves, which you were called on, but couldn't answer...). At the moment, you're spouting rhetoric without the knowledge of the larger picture that others have. Your faith is wonderful... but it's not the only expression of Christianity, nor indeed necessarily the "right" one for most. You really should accept that.
As to the thrust of the thread, whether Jesus had a wife, personally I think that He would have had one. I'd be rather surprised if He didn't, really. When we have arguments of "well, where's the reference?", the thing to remember is that it would have been considered such a normal, expected part of His life that there'd be no point. On the other hand, if He wasn't married, at the age of 30, that would have been worthy of note. We could also point out that the stories we have of His life are rather scant, a series of short episodes, many of which take place as he is out ministering, so it's entirely likely that, unless the wife was Mary Magdalene, she wouldn't have needed to be mentioned at all. And even if it was Mary (very plausible), mentioning her as His wife isn't really needed either...
Right, I think that's it for now.
It would be difficult to represent the faith and support people in that environment. That's all I'm trying to say. Maybe others would have no problems with it...
Well the plan was for us to go down to Leeds on Tuesday ( a about an hour away with a big Jewish community) stay with friends and come back today, only things worked out differently. It started raining on Monday, it carried on during the night so the motorway flooded, the villages around us flooded then the Garrison flooded, it rained horrendously hard all through Tuesday and only stopped late last night. I was called into work on Tuesday morning, we've had married quarters flooded, people stranded, cars swamped, school children trapped in schools, in in all far more eventful than it should have been, I should have been on leave but it was literally all hands to the pumps, the fire brigade worked for hours pumping out water where they could, the recruits were sent to help families as most of the men have been deployed to Afghan, they also built miles of sandbag walls.
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...tion_underway_but_misery_lingers_on_for_many/
It's the first time for many years I haven't had this time off but I was told not to fret about it, though I do, it wasn't possible for me in all good faith to say no I can't come into work. They would have understood if I had as they knew the importance to me to be off.
Jason, you can wash your hands all you like, you can rant, you can rave but it's not for you to judge, it's not for you to condemn, you aren't humble in your belief, you are arrogant and unforgiving, not good traits I believe for a Christian? There's no milk of human kindness in you, no compassion, no understanding just high handed arrogance. You don't wish to teach or inform you want to dictate, if I had ever felt inclined to convert to Christianity you would have put me right off! It's a good job I know a lot of good Chrisitians who I can admire otherwise if my view of Chrisitianity had been based on you I would have seen it as just as a hateful, vengeful religion full of ignorance and hate. You do not represent Jesus in any good light, you threaten, rant and rage in his name, I'd be very surprised if that was what he meant you to do.
Camp Centre Catterick Garrison early Tuesday morning before it got really bad! The bridge goes over a beck (a stream, the word is a leftover from the Vikings) which comes down from the dales. We are still clearing up but all our water drains away in the River Swale which itself drains into the River Ouse which goes through York now, they've had four metres of flood water and rising still today.
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