Unique scenerio

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
9,082
Reaction score
3,103
Location
New York
Yes, but we are talking about a 9 year old.
I was being a tad facetious with that first part. I believe it would lead to a call with the instructor, or more serious intervention. Which was why I made the next post, about how it will be perceived by other students.

There are, however, 9 year olds that can do that. That somehow miraculously have the drive to stay in a corner and work on their own thing. They're not very common, I've met 2 that have had that ability towards any subject, but it's possible.

Unless you meant the part about the setbacks. At which point, my only response is that 9 years old is more than old enough to learn that not everything will go how you want, even if you work really hard, and sometimes you just have to learn to accept that and pivot.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,161
Reaction score
2,336
Location
Northern VA
A few thoughts...

Pragmatic:
Fees? Insurance? She's more than a guest travelling through and visiting... Will you have to host the test?

After that, we can get into other stuff...

Are you, the parents and the young lady on the same page with regard to expectations? What happens after the poom test? Have you talked to the original instructor? What does he expect?

My suggestion would be to have a frank discussion with all of them -- maybe even Zoom in the other instructor. Make sure you're all on the same page about roles and expectations.

After that -- you have the potential to expose the young lady to a different approach, and to form a nice connection with the other instructor. You're "cousins" of a sort, after all. I'm personally in favor of letting kids achieve laudable goals, even if they're exactly your ideas of how things should work. But put a sunset on it -- she either changes to your program after the test, just like if she'd walked in off the street and claimed a 3rd poom earned elsewhere, or she goes on her way to another adventure after that.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
6,563
Reaction score
2,010
Location
Southeast U.S.
A few thoughts...

Pragmatic:
Fees? Insurance? She's more than a guest travelling through and visiting... Will you have to host the test?

After that, we can get into other stuff...

Are you, the parents and the young lady on the same page with regard to expectations? What happens after the poom test? Have you talked to the original instructor? What does he expect?

My suggestion would be to have a frank discussion with all of them -- maybe even Zoom in the other instructor. Make sure you're all on the same page about roles and expectations.

After that -- you have the potential to expose the young lady to a different approach, and to form a nice connection with the other instructor. You're "cousins" of a sort, after all. I'm personally in favor of letting kids achieve laudable goals, even if they're exactly your ideas of how things should work. But put a sunset on it -- she either changes to your program after the test, just like if she'd walked in off the street and claimed a 3rd poom earned elsewhere, or she goes on her way to another adventure after that.
Aren't these thing assumed and automatic in a for profit dojang? There is no difference in how I treat short term/traveling students versus regular signees as far as the paperwork goes.
Even one-nighter's (which I have never charged for) have to sign the liability paperwork. And I always have a set down with them, just to feel them out and try to get on the same page.
If I understand Mr. Rush, the girl just needs a place to accrue and verify hours. How this is translated to her former instructor I am not certain. But it sounds like you are correct in that there will be a little extra work or time involved.
I got the impression to OP is seeking feedback on how to navigate some of this.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
18,024
Reaction score
4,871
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Honestly, I don't see any reason to do this. You're not training her, and if you did, you'd be teaching her things the way the MDK does things. Not the KKW way. So that training wouldn't help her at all, and could potentially be counter productive.
For what it's worth, I agree with you on the rank. A 9 year old black belt is absurd, but her instructors can do absurd things if they want to.
If she's in your school, you should teach her. Sign her up just like any other student and treat her just like any other student. Yes, the MDK and KKW share some roots Back In The Day, but would they take her to a Shotokan school and ask them to train her in KKW TKD? The MDK also has some historical ties to Northern Chinese styles. Would they take her to a CMA school for KKW training?
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,161
Reaction score
2,336
Location
Northern VA
Aren't these thing assumed and automatic in a for profit dojang? There is no difference in how I treat short term/traveling students versus regular signees as far as the paperwork goes.
Even one-nighter's (which I have never charged for) have to sign the liability paperwork. And I always have a set down with them, just to feel them out and try to get on the same page.
If I understand Mr. Rush, the girl just needs a place to accrue and verify hours. How this is translated to her former instructor I am not certain. But it sounds like you are correct in that there will be a little extra work or time involved.
I got the impression to OP is seeking feedback on how to navigate some of this.
I try to never assume things... because I've been wrong a lot when I did. Mention it, and somenoe deals with it...
 

Tman

White Belt
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
13
Reaction score
9
Is she wanting to train in your class with your students or just looking for a facility to practice the material for an up coming exam? If it is the later could you rent her the use you facility to train with a parent and maybe Zoom with the original instructor, when the school is not being used for classes.
 

oneoftheherd80

White Belt
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
8
Interesting. I wish you luck with your decision.

Myself, I don't understand why she couldn't train at home for the required number of hours and let her parents verify the time spent. And I don't understand the requirement. Is it part of a requirement for a certain amount of time before an advancement, and why is he willing to advance her to 3rd poom if he can't trust her? And iff it is to be a virtual test, why are you needed. That can be done from her home. The whole thing just has an aura I personally would not care to be involved in from the information you have provided. And I absolutely agree with the previous posters who are concerned about the possible negative effects it might have on your current students.



EDIT: After reading the other posts, I don't think I have seen anybody mention fees for conducting the test if you choose to aid in the test. Maybe you already have. I don't know. Or maybe you don't wish to discuss that.
 
Last edited:

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
5,734
Reaction score
1,391
Something else to keep in mind is the perspective of your students. If they see someone of their age, with the same amount of training, getting a third degree, while they are stuck at blue/green belt, how would they feel and react to training with that individual? And keep in mind, even if you or I may know that you are not ranking her, to other 8/9/10 year olds, all they are seeing/understanding is that someone came in at a rank way higher than theirs (presumably with the same skill level), and 'you' promote them even higher shortly after they arrive. How involved you are with feedback to her will have some impact on that perception, but I can see it souring the attitudes and journeys of some of your own students.
This is one of the issues I have with TKD schools that require an incredible amount of time before getting your black belt. For example, a school that's 8-12 years instead of what I would consider to be more standard at 2-3 years. It would be like a college saying you can get your associate's degree in 8 years.
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
5,734
Reaction score
1,391
Theoretically, at 3rd Poom/Dan, they should be more than capable of doing their own workout/training. So there should be no issue with her doing her forms and training on the side until time for sparring, then joining in as a guest "sparrer" for that section of class. If she's unable to do that, have a call with her and her old instructor to discuss why.

Or just leave it alone; not everyone can always progress at the rate they want to-life happens. Being forced to accept a setback is part of that. Especially if the issue is simply that she won't be able to grade when she otherwise would have, and not that she can no longer participate (as you said she could if she started as a white belt in your school).
Or she could train at home for the test requirements, and train at his school for the hours and learn his stuff in the process.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
9,082
Reaction score
3,103
Location
New York
This is one of the issues I have with TKD schools that require an incredible amount of time before getting your black belt. For example, a school that's 8-12 years instead of what I would consider to be more standard at 2-3 years. It would be like a college saying you can get your associate's degree in 8 years.
I'd agree with that if OP was part of the same organization. But as it is, he isn't, so there's no reason to expect that he would have the same ranking times as the KKW. Being in separate organizations, he would be just as right to say that your organization should have longer times before black as you would to say his organization should have less time before black.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
6,563
Reaction score
2,010
Location
Southeast U.S.
I teach Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo. I had a WT 3rd Poom candidate stop by my class last night. She is 9 years old, and preparing for her 3rd poom. Her KJN has agreed to test her via zoom for her 3rd Poom, as she and her family moved last week from TX to OH. I am the only TKD school in the area, and we do not teach the WT/Kukkiwon curriculum.

She is requesting time in our dojang to get her required hours of training prior to her zoom test. Has anyone encountered situations like this in the past? How did you handle them, how did it all work out?

I imagine it would be a scenerio, where she would spend time on our floor training alongside other students, but she would not be getting so much instruction as just time on the floor with others. After her test, if she enjoyed the experience, she could then join our school as a white belt.

Personally, I don't agree with a 9 year old 3 dan/poom, but that's not my organization, not my school. However, I don't want to be a hinderance for her achieving her goals, as she had no say in her family moving. It could be a good opportunity for my students to train with someone with a different background and perspective.
Sir, I am curious how this has turned out?
 
OP
SahBumNimRush

SahBumNimRush

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
134
Location
USA
Sir, I am curious how this has turned out?
She's been to three classes, and so far it has been beneficial for everyone. She is very respectful, and encouraging of other students. Fortunately for me, her enthusiasm has been contagious. Thus far, she has been taking class along with us, for basically every part of class other than our forms curriculum.

I believe the mother, the student, and I are all on the same page, and that this is on a trial basis for the time being. That being said, so far it's been positive for everyone.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
6,563
Reaction score
2,010
Location
Southeast U.S.
She's been to three classes, and so far it has been beneficial for everyone. She is very respectful, and encouraging of other students. Fortunately for me, her enthusiasm has been contagious. Thus far, she has been taking class along with us, for basically every part of class other than our forms curriculum.

I believe the mother, the student, and I are all on the same page, and that this is on a trial basis for the time being. That being said, so far it's been positive for everyone.
That is fantastic to hear.
 
Top