Training your Kids vs. Training other people's Children (Students) in the Studio

Rick Wade

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
24
Location
Norfolk, va
Dilemma of a Father/Instructor

Silatman started a thread entitled How young do you start training kids.
That got me thinking I train my children but I started training them at a much younger age than I would start training other children.

Is that a double standard?

I will start by saying no because I pretty much train them at home and I am just working the forms right now.

On the other hand I say yes because when I do start taking them to the Studio I don't want people saying "she is the daughter's Instructor that is why she is an advanced belt". But I do expect them to be better.

I have heard that some instructors turn their kids training over to other instructors. But I want to mold them the way I want.

Please give me your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

V/R

Rick
:ultracool
 

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
429
Location
Cromwell,CT
I think its great that you're working with them at home first. This is good obviously because you can work with them at their own pace and they'll have an easier time with the material once you start bringing them to the school.

As for what others think...everyone is going to learn at a different speed. Some will pick things up easier than others. Will your child have an advantage? Sure. I've seen people compare their childs progress to their childs friends in the class, if they suddenly start to pass out their child. "Why is Johhny a belt higher than Joey when they both started at the same time?" Well....maybe Johnny is a faster learner, maybe he takes private lessons once a week, maybe we practices more at home.....the list can go on and on.

I wouldn't worry about it, but keeping in mind that this is something that you may face, try not to show any extra attn. to them in the class. Sure, they're your kids, but make sure you give everyone equal attn.

I hope that this was a help!

Mike
 
T

TonyM.

Guest
Having been trained by my late Dad whom I loved dearly I will say that turning your children over to another instructor is usually the best policy.
 

Sam

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
2,269
Reaction score
15
all the instructors at my studio turn their family over to each other, and there are a LOT of family ties at my studio. My instructor is another instructor's son, another instructor is my instructors cousin and the second mentioned instructors nephew. Another instructor is brother in law to another instructor, and one of these instructors also has a son, making him the nephew to the other one of those instructors, and another instructor is a brother in law to not the last instructor but the one before.

jeeze that was confusing. My point is, they've tried training their family before but it gets messed up. I can't claim that I know all their reasons, but all my instructors swear by it, and say it makes life much less complicated as they don't (concicously or not) bring in aspects from other parts of their life or let other things affect the training.

*EDIT*
also, do you think its really fair to try and 'mold' somebody into what you want them to be? Don't you think it would be better to simply teach them what you know and let them figure out how they want to use that on their own?
 
OP
Rick Wade

Rick Wade

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
24
Location
Norfolk, va
I have heard of other instructors turning there children over to someone else for teaching them Martial Arts. Al Tracy stated this in an article about one of his instructors. But I just don't agree with it.

If you truly believe in your system which I do, and have total faith in you abilities which I do, then you should teach your own kids.

My current instructor has taught his own son and now he is 23 the guy and his kid are like mirror images and that is a good thing when it comes to Martial Arts. Now they don't always agree when it comes to Techniques and stuff but it is amazing and actually almost poetic to watch. And when it comes to techniques they punish each other and that is comical. Just generally they have a lot of fun when they are on the mats.

V/R

Rick English
 
OP
Rick Wade

Rick Wade

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
24
Location
Norfolk, va
Samantha said:
also, do you think its really fair to try and 'mold' somebody into what you want them to be? Don't you think it would be better to simply teach them what you know and let them figure out how they want to use that on their own?

Good point However I will give you a really good counter point. My dad played college baseball and minor league ball and his dad played college ball. My dad never wanted to push me to baseball like his dad did. I showed no interest until I was a sophomore in High School. I walked out and was a starting Picher. I have always wondered what could have been If my dad had just enrolled me in Baseball. That is the reason I am going to expose them to everything I can and let them make their choice BUT I will always have them in my first love of Martial Arts at which I will closely monitor.

V/R

Rick
Rick
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,563
Reaction score
441
Location
Terre Haute, IN
I think you need to have someone else train them at some point--otherwise, how will you know if you're being too easy/too hard on them?

I train my son in Modern Arnis, but have him take JKD and BJJ with someone else. He gets a bit of both!
 

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
732
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
If they start to mimic you at home , start to train them (slowly). This will allow you to instill the basics that you want them to be able to build upon latter.
If they reach a point where they want to go to class, or a point you feel they need the class atmosfere, then turn them over to others.
 
OP
Rick Wade

Rick Wade

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
24
Location
Norfolk, va
arnisador said:
I think you need to have someone else train them at some point--otherwise, how will you know if you're being too easy/too hard on them?

I train my son in Modern Arnis, but have him take JKD and BJJ with someone else. He gets a bit of both!

That is a good idea I would probably lean more towards the hard side, however I would probably turn them over to my instructor Mr. Miyagi (just kidding). There is just very few people that I trust.

V/R

Rick English
 
OP
Rick Wade

Rick Wade

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
24
Location
Norfolk, va
Goldendragon you have a son does he study and what are your thoughts on this?

I guess I figured there would be more parents responding to this thread.

V/R

Rick
 

Ceicei

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
85
Location
Utah
Not sure if my comments really apply here, as I am not an instructor yet. I do assist teach (I'm a brown belt) at my school.

My sons study at the same school. I find it easier to have others teach my sons. The most obvious reason, of course, is my experience level. However, even if I were of sufficient rank to be a full fledged instructor, I probably would still have other instructors (whose teaching ability I trust) teach my sons. The primary reason is that in my sons' eyes, I am their mom. They do not want the parental pressure. I find they listen better if they train under someone else.

Now when I do get my black belt, my daughters will be old enough to take up training. I will still go the same route by having other trusted instructors teach them. It will reduce any perception of favorism.

- Ceicei
 
OP
Rick Wade

Rick Wade

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
24
Location
Norfolk, va
Ceicei said:
Not sure if my comments really apply here, as I am not an instructor yet. I do assist teach (I'm a brown belt) at my school.

My sons study at the same school. I find it easier to have others teach my sons. The most obvious reason, of course, is my experience level. However, even if I were of sufficient rank to be a full fledged instructor, I probably would still have other instructors (whose teaching ability I trust) teach my sons. The primary reason is that in my sons' eyes, I am their mom. They do not want the parental pressure. I find they listen better if they train under someone else.

Now when I do get my black belt, my daughters will be old enough to take up training. I will still go the same route by having other trusted instructors teach them. It will reduce any perception of favorism.

- Ceicei

All good points here But do you and your Son work out at home?

What rank and how old is he?

I just find this topic extreemly intresting for the fact I do love Karate so much I don't want to cram it down my kids throats. However with that being said they will learn at least enough to defend themselves even if they don't want to learn Karate.

Lets take for example Ed Parker Sr. didn't teach his son. Heck Mr. Parker didn't start regular Kenpo lessons until after Ed Parker Sr. Passed. But even Mr. Parker will tell ya he still learned some stuff from his Dad.

:erg: I think I am starting to come over to come over to the dark side.

V/R

Rick
 

Ceicei

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
85
Location
Utah
Rick Wade said:
All good points here But do you and your Son work out at home?

What rank and how old is he?
As far as my experience level, I am a very "experienced beginner". :uhyeah: I first started Kenpo 20 years ago and began at a white belt three times (trained at five studios throughout the years).

I have two sons. Both of my sons started three years ago. They were both 10 and 8 respectively when they begain their training and this year will be 13 & 11. They are both currently junior brown belts. My two daughters are 5 and 2.

We do practice at home, but I do not try to teach them new material. I feel it best not to confuse them. The children's curriculum and the adult curriculum have some differences so I let them progress at their pace. It helps reduce the competition they feel between themselves.

- Ceicei
 

Goldendragon7

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 15, 2002
Messages
5,643
Reaction score
37
Location
Scottsdale, Arizona
Rick Wade said:
Goldendragon you have a son does he study and what are your thoughts on this?
Actually 2 sons, Dennis II will turn 17 this July 12th and Stephen who just turned 15 this past May 9th.

My personal opinion is that it really depends heavily on the individual instructor. Some are way too hard on their children (which can turn off some children due to the parents forcing their martial desires on the kids) and yet others let them get away with murder (which in a studio is simply unacceptable to me).

My guys have seen me in many, many different teaching and real life situations and to some degree like the Art, but are not really driven like I was or am to follow me in my journey. So I extend a lot of rope for them. They may at some point want to continue but at this time have only a modest interest in "dads" love. I also wanted them to play football, and other sports but only Stephen shows any real desire for athletics (baseball). Dennis is more prone to bowling and ping pong... (sigh).. LOL but I need to allow them to pursue their dreams and desires not mine (yes this was hard at times).

My boys are both have lofty goals in life (Dennis wants to be an Ambassador to China) and has been accepted at Yale for a 10 week summer studies program (as we speak -- Oh gawd... my little man is growing up sniff sniff) to learn to read and write Chinese (which he can do a bit already!). Stephen is set on the Air Force Academy and wants to be a lawyer when he is done there flying fighters. Both are academic achievers (4.+ gpa) in areas that they have chosen so I let them go to follow their dreams. (I do hope that someday they both would earn their black belts from me but ...... who knows) :ultracool

I do support them in whatever they want to do and they know that. (I think this is KEY). They know that their black belts are waiting for them, but they also know exactly what I require.... LOL (maybe learning to read and write Chinese and the Air Force fighter pilot training is easier hmmmmm I never thought of that.......:rolleyes:).

My parents (may they rest in peace) hated me in Karate until way late in life, when they realized I didn't listen to them and pursued my dreams anyway.....LOL then they were proud of me.... but it was tooth and nail for several years.....LOL.

Well, those are my thoughts and I'm sticken' to em. :)
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
338
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Well Mr Wade , I too am a father of three boys. I have been training them since the day they started to walk my oldest is 11 and then 8, and 6, I also train my wife along side 73 other students and I have never personally ever had trouble with anybody crying favorite in my school. I believe a good instructor is like a good coach you should be able to seperate your personal feelings during the class that they are participating in. We as a family never take home the problems at the Dojaang and if it is unsolved we pick up from the night before just like any other student would do. My father trained me as I see my childern carring the legacy out when they have there family, can't predict but sure do hope they choose the right path all I can do is guide them.

Twin Dragons MAS
Terry Lee Stoker
 

Gemini

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
3,546
Reaction score
37
Location
The Desert
I wrestle with this everyday. I have a strong desire to teach my kids, but I have also proven (to myself) that I am not capable of being impartial to them. I'm much harder on them than I am on the other students. Because of this, I have stopped training them at home and make a forceful effort everyday to be impartial to them in class. If the day comes when I am capable of being impartial, I would love to teach them at home again. I see this as a failure on my own part, and consider it one of the goals of my own training.


Regards,
 

thesensei

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Messages
166
Reaction score
0
Location
Wagoner, OK
Interesting thread. It is fascinating to read other's ideas on this subject. My kids are still very young (1 & 2), so I have not yet had to make a decision on this. But they already try to copy me when they see me working out in the yard! I will have to deal with this same issue in other areas as well. I do know how to separate MY feelings, and distinguish from family time and "work" time, but I am more concerned about whether my children can do that!

For example, my wife has come to ONE of my MA classes. It didn't bother me a bit - I treated her exactly the same as my other students. But it sure bothered her! She can't distinguish the difference between husband and teacher in her mind. Therefore, I have ceased trying to convince her to allow me to train her!

I guess I'll have to do the same thing with my children. I'll just try to pay attention to their development, and gauge whether or not they can accept me as "instructor." I have Rick's problem - I don't trust many people!

Great thread - keep up the good discussion.

Salute,
JB
 

gmkuoha

Orange Belt
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
89
Reaction score
5
Good question! I think an instructor should be able to teach his/hers own children. Molding should come from what the child can gather on their own. We, as instructors should not try to mold anyone...we give them the tools by which they mold themselves. Sometimes we make mistakes while trying to make them exceptional and not allowing them to learn like anyone else. It is their own determination and drive that will set them apart from other students. I have had a bit of teaching experience from training all my 5 children (4 from my 1st marraige and now with my youngest daughter, Ka'imi). Some of you may have seen her as she has appeared on the cover of Inside Kung Fu Magazine when she was only 15 and also the magazine stemming from Spain called "Budo." She has also been a regular celebrity at the Dragonfest each year held in LA. She will also appear on another cover of IKF early next year (you can write the editor Dave Cater and ask him which issue she will be on). When I started to teach my oldest daughter at 4, I wanted her to be the very best and drove her on that path. Yes, she became very good and everyone could see that and they would say...yep that is the instructor's daughter and you can tell. I was proud for all my efforts yet on her 18th birthday she walked up to me and said, "Dad, I quit karate." Man did that floor me and then I realized that I had pushed her into something that I wanted her to be, not what she wanted to be on her own. Now when I started to teach my youngest daughter, I went about it in a different way. She was taught at 10 months old teching her Ki Principles at that age. Her whole life has been hanging around the students and so she grew up in an adult world and did everything with the students. Because she was so matured at a young age, she was able to grasp things that adults have a hard time getting. At the age of 2 she was able to perform an entire kata that is very complex in nature along with all her techniques and sparring. When Professor Chow saw her at this age...he stated to her that someday she would be running his system and today at nearly 22 years old, that has been a driving force for her as she has never taken any time off from the arts and in fact about 10 years ago decided to train in Kung Fu and go back the roots of The Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo System practicing extreme internal arts as well as the pysical side of it all. I treated her like the rest of the students but it was that guidance on the side that allowed her to decide for herself what road would be best for her. Now she is a 4th dan going for her 5th and is one of the major people in the training team which teaches hundreds of instructors from all over the world (20 countries) and thousands of students. She has been an actress since she was 3 years old and has acted in films with such stars as; Raquel Welch, Ernie Reyes Jr, Karen Black, Richard Hatch, Tadashi Yamashita, Dan Aykroyd and George Clooney. She has been in numerous plays and besides her acting career, she is also a professional singer and hip hop dancer. She belongs to 2 professional hip hop dance teams that does shows all over the west coast. She was also on the top salsa team in the US under the world champions. She goes all day from 7-11 everyday and still managaes to train at least 5 days a week in the arts. When she was younger she used to compete in tourneys and win the grandchampionships in several divisions but because she felt that she was being stereotyped and wasn't being critiqued enough...she left the tournament circuit. She returned after being away for nearly 8 years, last year and competed in one of the largest tournaments in the west coast, without any preparation but from some heavy edging from some of the students and won in fighting and in kata and even took home the grandchampionship trophy along with the prize money. On this day she beat some of the top performers in the west coast. Yes, I believe you should just give them the knowledge and allow them to make their own decisions on which path they should choose and if guided correctly, they will indeed choose the path that will make you proud not only as their teacher but also their father because she surely has done that.
Grandmaster Kuoha
 
  • Like
Reactions: MJS
OP
Rick Wade

Rick Wade

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
24
Location
Norfolk, va
Great replys from everyone More than likely I will give them the basics and see how it goes from there.
Come to think of it noone handed me a manual when I became a parent at least I have manuals. LOL

V/R

Rick
 
Top