too square

[Earl Weiss]

Never run into that yet personally, but shame on the ignorant instructor who is passing on his own lack of education. That is an embarrassing gaffe. I would wonder what else he doesn't know if I were his student.

Maybe, maybe not. Was in a class with Nam Tae Hi and he called a knifehand "Shuto". Few would criticise him.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Since the Koreans learned it from the Japanese, why don't Koreans use Japanese commands in their classes?

I have been in classes with a Pioneer who did just that as posted above. That is how he learned the names in the Chung Do Kwan and didn't neccesarily adopt all the "new" Korean terminology.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I suppose you're correct, if all you're interested in is learning "physical motion". But to me (and others, apparently) there is more to our Art than "physical motion".

Actualy learning Korean names for physical motion is much easier than learning an entire new language to be able to supposedly learn about philosophy and culture.

Do you need to learn Italian and Greek to be able to learn the philosophies and cultures of the Greeks and Romans?. I think not.

Further, learning a few terms will not help you understand culture or philosophy.

 

[dancingalone]

Maybe, maybe not. Was in a class with Nam Tae Hi and he called a knifehand "Shuto". Few would criticise him.

I'm sure Nam Tae Hi would not be teaching Japanese terms as Korean ones however. That's the scenario Mr. McHenry described.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I'm sure Nam Tae Hi would not be teaching Japanese terms as Korean ones however. That's the scenario Mr. McHenry described.

If you are sure he would not, then you are wrong. The reason was simple. His roots pre date TKD and use of Korean terms.

 

[dancingalone]

If you are sure he would not, then you are wrong. The reason was simple. His roots pre date TKD and use of Korean terms.

Mr. Weiss, perhaps I am not being plain enough. I do not think any Korean from that era would use Japanese words and tell his students they are Korean ones as happened above in the anecdote Mr. McHenry related, where the American (I assume) instructor did so likely from ignorance.

I do not question that Nam Tae Hi would use a Japanese term in teaching such as 'shuto' as I recall you relating this story before. Clearer now, I hope.

 

[DMcHenry]

Mr. Weiss basically makes my point I eluded to, but yes Dancingalone you are correct - I have seen instructors missleading their students telling them they were using Korean terms when then weren't, due to the instructors total lack of knowledge.

I have a few times used Japanese terms in my class, to educate my students on the differences and so they know when they hear them. I let them know what's Korean and what's Japanese.

 

[Earl Weiss]

OK, I get it now. .... But, here is what happens.

Student copies instructor. Student has no clue the instructor is not using a Korean term. Student becomes an instructor and continues to use the term. Student should know better and perhaps does, yet fails to change because : A. Old habitys are hard to break, B. It was good enough for his instructor so it's good enough for him, C. System is perpetuated out of respect for instructor D. System is perpetuated because student feels it is improper to ever ask the instructor a question as to why he does stuff one way when the convention seems to be something else.

And yes, I have seen the nimrods who should know better and perhaps do and mess it up anyway. One guy in particular comes to mind. TKD splattered all over his uniform as well as the title "Sensei"

 

[Nomad]

Actually, I think there's another valid argument to learning the Korean or Japanese words for the terms... in some ways, it makes the teaching easier.

People coming into class often have preconceived notions of what a punch, kick, or block might look like or how to perform each of these.

Teaching an age uke or mae geri (in karate, or the equivalent Korean terms for TKD) instead comes without the baggage, and in some cases leads to easier adoption of the techniques the way the instructor wishes them to be done.

 

[Carol]

I can understand how learning another language teaches a lot about a culture, I speak two languages other than English myself.

So...that leaves me with a couple of questions. Specifically, how can a person learn about the culture of a people using the limited vocabulary of MA words? And what specifically is being learned?

 

[bribrius]

I can understand how learning another language teaches a lot about a culture, I speak two languages other than English myself.

So...that leaves me with a couple of questions. Specifically, how can a person learn about the culture of a people using the limited vocabulary of MA words? And what specifically is being learned?

yes but all the foreign words makes it sound more impressive.....

 

[Dirty Dog]

I can understand how learning another language teaches a lot about a culture, I speak two languages other than English myself.

So...that leaves me with a couple of questions. Specifically, how can a person learn about the culture of a people using the limited vocabulary of MA words? And what specifically is being learned?

I think if a person is interested in studying the language as part of the art, and as a means of learning more about the culture of the people who developed that art, they are probably not limiting themselves to a MA vocabulary. I certainly am not. Am I fluent? Not in the least. Nor am I ever likely to be. But I'll learn more than I know now.

As to what, specifically, is learned, I don't know that I can answer, given my current poor level of knowledge. Sure, there are things I've learned that I consider interesting, but I'm not yet sure what they tell me about the culture. For example, I've learned that what we consider a reverse punch is a regular punch in Korea. Or the different connotations of the word "Master" here vs Korea.

When I travel, I make an effort to learn at least a smattering of the local language, rather that expecting the locals to speak English. At least enough to greet people, ask simple questions, and thank people properly. I consider this respectful and just plain common courtesy. I spend a lot more time on Tae Kwon Do than I do traveling. And I expect to (eventually) know much more of the language, culture and history of the people who developed this art than I do now.

Please note that I am in no way saying that this is required to learn a martial art. I'm just saying that I personally find it interesting and useful. And if my saying "hai san" at the end of class, rather than "class dismissed" sparks an interest in another student, then that cannot be considered a bad thing.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I can understand how learning another language teaches a lot about a culture, I speak two languages other than English myself.

So...that leaves me with a couple of questions. Specifically, how can a person learn about the culture of a people using the limited vocabulary of MA words? And what specifically is being learned?

Here, grasshopper, I will explain. Unless you know the culture, or perhaps are even nativre born to the culture that developed the art you cannot truly grasp the meaning of this MA and all that it entails. Here, have some Kool aid er i mean tea, and you will begin to understand, or perhaps because you are not a native you may never truly grasp the meaning.

 

[granfire]

Seriously, I think it's overrated to 'understand the art' via language, though language is the key to the soul of a nation.

I thinks it should be - as correctly as possible pronounced (I have a friend who is married to a Korean gringe everytime somebody butchers the commands, which is pretty much every time around here ) the collection of technical terms. As I said above, we have a myriad of different terms for the same kick or punch. Many times we talk around in circles because we don't get quiet to the point, lacking the common vocabulary.