TMA Stances compared with snapshots from MMA
- Thread starter skribs
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I'm not saying that mine is better. What I'm saying is that people in general make assumptions about the thoughts of people in the past and why they actually did the things that they did. We often project modern reasoning on people of the past. In short, you are using your modern knowledge to create a perspective and claiming that it's the same perspective of someone who lived hundreds of years or thousands of years ago. You aren't factoring in the perspective of what existed then, in the environment that it existed in.
For example, If you were living in the paleolithic days, the most that you will care about your diet is that you had food to eat. The biggest concern about the food that you would eat isn't going to be about how the food makes you fat. The biggest concern about the food you is would be. "Is this food going to make me sick or kill me." In terms of the size of the portions of food and diet. We assume that the food was the same size. The food that we have has undergone a lot of manual genetic manipulation for example, only planting the seeds from crops that yield the biggest fruit. We also use hydroponic farms which also yields larger fruit. I know a lot about this because I do a lot of gardening and my wife enjoys hydroponics. I prefer growing plants in the soil while my wife prefers Hydroponics. So from the seed to the mature plant I know what effort it takes. As a kid I used to eat wild black berries and they don't yield the same amount of berries every year. When it yields fruit there is only a short amount of time to actually eat it before wildlife gets to it. I also tried to hunt small game as a child with things like hand made weapons and none of that stuff is easy
I am saying that you are projecting a lot of "diet wisdom" that you know from today's knowledge on a past that didn't have the same knowledge and understanding that you have now.
I've already posted lots of historical information. No need to test. If you got disagreements with the references that I posted then you need to take it up with the sources who wrote it.
I could be wrong, but you have yet to post any source data for any of what you claim.
The only sources that I remember you state are Ancient Kung fu masters, you, and Ron, and paleolithic diet.
all with no links where people can read and research more if they so choose.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
His understanding of nutrition and perspective on the pre-historic reality certainly is better.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
The ancients knew all about the healing powers of garlic.
I'm not projecting , I'm pointing out fundamental facts about nutrition and kung fu stances that have been known to kung fu masters a lot longer than science has been around.
We're talking about inflammation here, and a little something referred to as prophylaxis in medical circles.
I'm avoiding the kung fu terms for now, just so that we can have a clearer understanding, but injuries from kung fu training combining good stances with poor nutritional practices is several centuries old.
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Oily Dragon
Senior Master
It's pretty easy to just Google up the medicinal qualities of anti-inflammatory roots and herbs.
Jow Ga Kuen medicine is loaded with this stuff and a lot of it is specifically targeted at the type of training you've posted. This isn't really a debate at all so why bother, I am trying to impart some friendly advice. Oster sauce over soy sauce, that sort of thing.
Don't even get me started on Kung Pa Chicken the American way, vs. the original. One will ruin your kung fu, the other will make it sparkle. Guess which?
Kung Pao Chicken | Debunking Myths of China
_Simon_
Senior Master
Okay let me see if I've got this straight...
Are you saying that eating Kung Pao Chicken... made a certain way (and I don't mean by adding poison), will literally ruin your Kung Fu, and render you unable to practice Kung Fu...?
Science is older than Kung Fu.
Earliest evidence of science dates back to Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia in around 3500 to 3000 BCE. Source: Science - Wikipedia
Kung Fu didn't come around until First Chinese Kung Fu was CE 477 – The first abbot of Shaolin Monastery was Buddhabadra, an Indian Dhyana master who came to China in AD 464
Pyramids are older than Kung Fu and if that isn't science then I don't know what is. Archimedes is older than Kung Fu. Doctors, Sages, Medicine Men, Shamens, and the like are older than Kung Fu and were around before Kung Fu masters. even through about a horse stance.
So when your say Fundamental Facts. Your time line doesn't match what you claim.
"I'm less confident in your understanding of "prophylaxis in medical circles." when your timelines are so inaccurate. Anything that you say in that are is probably due to modern influence on what you heard or read in Ron's book, and not from a historical source. You even stated yourself that your fountain of knowledge that was backing your claims up was. "You and Ron Wheeler."
You have yet to mention any Kung Fu medical practitioners.
This doesn't mean much to me because Diet in general determines physical health. Eat too much then you'll have health problems, that fat people get. Eat to little and you'll have health problems that starving people eat. Don't get the right amount of nutrients and you'll have deficiencies. That's nothing new, and it's so common that animals understand of many types re able to manage nutrient deficiencies.
When my dog gets sick it eats grass.
You don't have to be a kung fu master to understand how a good diet is better than a bad one. Try what some people on this planet go through and not eat for 2 and 3 days. You'll pick up that lesson really quick. Look at malnourished animals and you'll know right way they need food. Over feed gold fish and the will die. What you contribute to Kung Fu as being some sort of Halmark of "Diet Knowledge" is out of context of what people were experiencing during the times that you were claiming. The majority of what people know in terms of good diet has very little to do with Kung Fu or Kung Fu stances.
This one really bothers me because of what it implies.
Injuries from kung fu training - injuries from kung fu training happen regardless of your nutritional diet. If you train Kung Fu for fighting then there are going to be injuries from a wide range of things that don't deal with the diet.
This would be like me saying. "you'll have injuries in boxing due to your bad diet." Alot of injuries in boxing have more to do with pushing beyond one's limits, accidents, and intentional strikes to the face, head, and elbows." One could be healthy and still get multiple injuries.
My guess is that Jobo created a new account just so he could says some stuff like this lol.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Fun fact, the ancient Egyptians are often credited with inventing beer, too. They were so cool.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
Are you even aware there is more than one way to cook Kung Pao Chicken?
If so, then sort of.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
not really.
“Every suffering is a buddha-seed, because suffering impels mortals to seek wisdom. But you can only say that suffering gives rise to buddhahood. You can’t say that suffering is buddhahood. Your body and mind are the field. Suffering is the seed, wisdom the sprout, and buddhahood the grain.”
― Bodhidharma
Your Jow Ga Kuen stancework, very specifically, can be helped or harmed by certain nutritional additives. Your Jow Ga Ancestors educated themselves in this subject.
Avoid sugars, alcohols, fruit, and anything in the direction of glutamate.
Instead, eat chicken, pork, red meat, vegetables, beans, and especially liquids.
Buddism was born:
Buddhism, founded in the late 6th century B.C.E. by Siddhartha Gautama (the "Buddha"), is an important religion in most of the countries of Asia. Buddhism has assumed many different forms, but in each case there has been an attempt to draw from the life experiences of the Buddha, his teachings, and the "spirit" or "essence" of histeachings (called dhamma or dharma) as models for the religious life. However, not until the writing of the Buddha Charita (life of the Buddha) by Ashvaghosa in the 1st or 2nd century C.E. do we have acomprehensive account of his life. The Buddha was born (ca. 563 B.C.E.) (source:The Origins of Buddhism)
Science was born:
Earliest evidence of science dates back to Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia in around 3500 to 3000 BCE.
Science is older than Buddism, Older Christianity, Older than Kung Fu.
The Djoser Step Pyramid in Saqqara, Egypt was constructed by Imhotep (Djoser's royal architect) c.2630 BC.
Architecture is the art and science of designing buildings and structures. The process of making brick is a science.
Science is older than Buddism. Science is older than Kung Fu.
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
One could say that the invention of the wheel is the earliest iteration of mechanical engineering.
I think it's really interesting to consider the advanced science that the Roman Empire brought to many part of Europe that were essentially forgotten by the locals once the empire fell. I mean, the Romans spent about 500 years in England, building roads, buildings, Hadrian's wall, the Roman baths in Bath. Pretty advanced stuff. Took the Brits several centuries to relearn much of it.
But even before that, the Sumerians and Egyptians were doing some pretty incredible things. I read somewhere that the Sumerians actually invented the wheel, not to use with carts, but initially to use as a potter's wheel to make more and better pottery. Not sure if that's true or not, but I think the wheel is placed somewhere around 4,000BCE right alongside things like writing.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
The earliest known mechanical discoveries/inventions were levers, fulcrums and iterations of the rope and harnesses . The Roman's used all of them in building and their pulley systems were quiet impressive.
Heck, Homo Sapiens has been engineering stuff since we emerged on this planet. Ever try flint knapping? How about moving from a throwing stick or thrusting spear to developing and atl atl. That's all about leverage. Man, considering what little they had to work with, the ancients were geniuses. They were the wolves, and we are just lap-dogs by comparison.
Every time I see one of those idiotic shows about how aliens helped the ancients build the great monuments of their civilizations supposedly "because even modern science can't figure out how they did it" ...I think what a bunch of lunacy. Of course the ancients figured out stuff we've forgotten about. They were just as smart as the brightest minds of our times ...and maybe smarter, because back then, the dumb and weak died off. I know for sure, I wouldn't have made it in Paleolithic times. Probably not in any pre-modern times.
yeah you are right about that. The biggest shock was that that all of the modern ideas of hunting with a spear were wrong for a long time. That and the boomerang really shows just how important it was to have a successful hunt lol. Better the hunting tool the more likely you'll eat. I wonder how everyone came up with the same idea? I guess if you hunt with a spear enough you'll find new ways to throw it.
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