TKD Leaders

[leadleg]

You were actively against the gov't take over of the KKW,have you noticed any differenses in the operation of the KKW, besides the new logo etc.
Do you still have any contacts there?
Most important are the instructors at the KKW still there or did they bring in new instructors.I like KKW instructors,that is real TKD and you would not mistake their moves as karate.

 

[puunui]

You were actively against the gov't take over of the KKW,have you noticed any differenses in the operation of the KKW, besides the new logo etc.
Do you still have any contacts there? Most important are the instructors at the KKW still there or did they bring in new instructors.I like KKW instructors,that is real TKD and you would not mistake their moves as karate.

I still have contacts there, because the staff remain; just the leadership changed. When I ask about the changes, they become quiet and don't want to say anything because they want to keep their jobs. But I can feel that their jobs maybe more difficult because of the complaints coming in, about the logo, the dan certificates, etc.

Most of the fighting is at the President level vs. the Board of Directors. My feeling is that President Kang won't be President for a very long time; he is disliked by the KTA, who were strongly opposed to his selection. President Kang and KTA President HONG Joon Pyo have history and issues.

President Kang is also an alumni of Kyung Hee University, which is the school founded by WTF Chungwon CHOUE'S father. President Choue calls upon Kyung Hee alumni to help him in times of need.

So the battlelines at the present is KTA on one side, and WTF, TPF(Muju Park) and perhaps Kukkiwon on the other side. KTA is the most powerful WTF Member National Association and is also the Association that processes the most Kukkiwon certifications by far, so there is sort of a weird balance of power going on at the moment. It was hoped that the balance would be tipped if Dr. Un Yong KIM became WTF President again, and if GM Seung Wan Lee would remain as Kukkiwon president. But the Korean government has a plan of their own, so that is the way it is going. One thing is that KTA President Hong is rumored to be a strong candidate for the next Korean Presidency, and if that happens, then things certainly would change.

I believe that the instructional staff remains the same, led by GM LEE Chong Kwan. GM Lee is a Chang Moo Kwan member who did all the form demonstrations in the 1997 video. In the latest DVD, he is featured less. There may be a few instructional staff changes, but that happens no matter who is in charge. I agree that the Kukkiwon instructors are top notch. I wish everyone could have the chance to experience training with the Kukkiwon instructors. Perhaps their view would change if that happened.

 

[Miles]

I believe that the instructional staff remains the same, led by GM LEE Chong Kwan. GM Lee is a Chang Moo Kwan member who did all the form demonstrations in the 1997 video. In the latest DVD, he is featured less. There may be a few instructional staff changes, but that happens no matter who is in charge. I agree that the Kukkiwon instructors are top notch. I wish everyone could have the chance to experience training with the Kukkiwon instructors. Perhaps their view would change if that happened.

GM LEE, Chong Kwan is outstanding. He was the highlight of training at the KKW for me. Last year in Chicago at the KKW Course sponsored by the United States TKD Committee, we had the good fortune of training with GM AHN, Jae Yoon just weeks before he won at the World Poomsae Championships-you don't get any better than that!

 

[leadleg]

I am against the Taekwondo Park because I truly believe that it is trying to supplant the Kukkiwon. I don't trust Mr. Dae Soon Lee.
I don't get the referal of Dai Soon Lee being untrustwothy, can you elaborate?
Here are some people who believe in the park, I believe you are familar with them.http://www.tpf.kr/eng/news/noticeView.asp?idx=29&SearchType=&SearchValue=&page=1



The money goes to supporting Taekwondoin. They haven't raised prices for dan certification in 25 years. The Hanmadang is free, with no competitor entry fee. And the Kukkiwon donates $1 million per year every year to the WTF. You need to show a little more respect for the Kukkiwon.

I am KKW, my daughter is KKW, my grand daughter is KKW ,loyal yes blindly loyal, no.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I have heard the same rumors that the TKD Park will replace the KKW. I think the fact that Pres Kang now leads the KKW, may help keep the relationship together. TKD did not have these problems when the KTA, KKW & WTF were led by 1 person, Dr. Kim. Ever since they were seperated with 3 different leaders, new or different problems arose. I hope that they can sort it out. I also heard that the WTF was close to issuing their own BB certificates as well. I guess time will tell.

"And the Kukkiwon donates $1 million per year every year to the WTF. You need to show a little more respect for the Kukkiwon."

With the relationship between the WTF & KKW being so bad, I thought that the KKW was not paying the money that it was supposed to, to the WTF for the last couple of years. That was one of the main factors that motivated the new WTF membership fee program.

 

[puunui]

With the relationship between the WTF & KKW being so bad, I thought that the KKW was not paying the money that it was supposed to, to the WTF for the last couple of years. That was one of the main factors that motivated the new WTF membership fee program.

The relationship between the WTF and Kukkiwon was never that bad. And the Kukkiwon continued to give the WTF the money every year, which by the way is in excess of the funds collected by the Kukkiwon from all WTF Member National Associations combined. The Kukkiwon basically gives all the proceeds from overseas Kukkiwon poom and dan promotions to the WTF, plus more. With a deal like that, what is the motivation for the WTF to create their own dan certification system?

 

[KarateMomUSA]

The relationship between the WTF and Kukkiwon was never that bad. And the Kukkiwon continued to give the WTF the money every year, which by the way is in excess of the funds collected by the Kukkiwon from all WTF Member National Associations combined. The Kukkiwon basically gives all the proceeds from overseas Kukkiwon poom and dan promotions to the WTF, plus more. With a deal like that, what is the motivation for the WTF to create their own dan certification system?

I will defer to you, but I was under the impression that the KKW didn't pay the money for about 2 years. This was also a reason that the WTF moved into an office building owned by Dr Choue or his family. A lot of problems arose when Dr Kim Un Yong was arrested, convicted & served prison time for corruption. Once that happened, the 3 entities were now headed by 3 different presidents, so naturally some cohesion was lost. Additionally the different reform methods taken or not taken by the 3 entities caused strife. The KKW was led by martial artists and the WTF was led by an academic given the responsibility of cleaning up Olympic TKD. I have heard that Dr Choue had a reputation for integrity, which was needed for obvious reasons.
Once the riff between the WTF & KKW grew, the south Korean National Assembly step in & made a law to disqualify those with criminal records, GM Lee Seung Wan had to go. Mr. Lee was also convicted for interfering in the KTA elections with still another TKD scandal.
This lack of money was what played a role in prompted the WTF to explore issuing their own BB certification & setting up a membership program, which is already underway. The WTF has also started to set up their own regional training centres, with Iran being one or the first.
I think the WTF leadership is more comfortable with Mr. Kang as president of the KKW.

 

[miguksaram]

This lack of money was what played a role in prompted the WTF to explore issuing their own BB certification & setting up a membership program, which is already underway.

What I do not understand is what criteria are they basing their BB certification on? Does the WTF have its own curriculum and standards for TKD promotion? What do I need fora WTF BB that I could not get from a KKW BB? Or is just my money goes to one and not the other?

 

[terryl965]

What I do not understand is what criteria are they basing their BB certification on? Does the WTF have its own curriculum and standards for TKD promotion? What do I need fora WTF BB that I could not get from a KKW BB? Or is just my money goes to one and not the other?

It would be strickly sport TKD is what I have heard.

 

[miguksaram]

It would be strickly sport TKD is what I have heard.

So how do you get a BB in that? Just go to tournaments and if you win you get promoted? If you lose you stay your same rank forever?

 

[puunui]

I have heard the same rumors that the TKD Park will replace the KKW. I think the fact that Pres Kang now leads the KKW, may help keep the relationship together.

I think that appointing GM KANG Won Sik as Kukkiwon President will assist, not deter, the efforts to eliminate Kukkiwon and/or move it to Muju. He doesn't seem to be acting in the Kukkiwon's best interest.

With the relationship between the WTF & KKW being so bad, I thought that the KKW was not paying the money that it was supposed to, to the WTF for the last couple of years. That was one of the main factors that motivated the new WTF membership fee program.

No. The Kukkiwon continued to donate to the WTF under Presidents UHM and LEE. As for the WTF membership registration program, I don't know if there is a fee attached, but I understand the main purpose is to speed registration and tracking of athletes and perhaps even referees and coaches at WTF International Events. I don't think everyone is required to register, just those participating at WTF events.

 

[Archtkd]

What I do not understand is what criteria are they basing their BB certification on? Does the WTF have its own curriculum and standards for TKD promotion? What do I need fora WTF BB that I could not get from a KKW BB? Or is just my money goes to one and not the other?

The University of California Berkely was helping develop curriculum (http://www.wtf.org/bbs/bbs.php?bbs_code=10001&bbs_no=3642&bbs_num=278&symode=view)
for the proposed World Taekwondo Academy, which will be based at the new Taekwondo park. GM Ken Min, who led UC Berkely's Martial Arts Program was instrumental in formation of the USTU (http://www.lacancha.com/kmfound.pdf ), which in turn gave lots of momentum to Taekwondo's entry into the Olympics. It's not clear (maybe Puunui could kindly shed some light on this), whether the proposed World Taekwondo Academy will have strong ties to the Kukkiwon or is entirely a WTF project. I also wonder where the UC Berkely folks, especially GM Min, stand on the remote possibilyy of a split between the Kukkiwon and WTF. Although GM Min retired he is still technical advisor of the UC Berkely's Martial Arts program and an advisor to the WTF.

 

[puunui]

The University of California Berkely was helping develop curriculum (http://www.wtf.org/bbs/bbs.php?bbs_code=10001&bbs_no=3642&bbs_num=278&symode=view) for the proposed World Taekwondo Academy, which will be based at the new Taekwondo park. GM Ken Min, who led UC Berkely's Martial Arts Program was instrumental in formation of the USTU (http://www.lacancha.com/kmfound.pdf ), which in turn gave lots of momentum to Taekwondo's entry into the Olympics. It's not clear (maybe Puunui could kindly shed some light on this), whether the proposed World Taekwondo Academy will have strong ties to the Kukkiwon or is entirely a WTF project.

that is the "sensitive issue" that no one knows the answer to, whether Muju will supplant Kukkiwon as the new "world taekwondo academy" and assume all of the Kukkiwon's present educational functions, or not. That is one of the reasons why people are concerned about the intentions of the Muju Park.

 

[miguksaram]

The University of California Berkely was helping develop curriculum (http://www.wtf.org/bbs/bbs.php?bbs_code=10001&bbs_no=3642&bbs_num=278&symode=view)
for the proposed World Taekwondo Academy, which will be based at the new Taekwondo park. GM Ken Min, who led UC Berkely's Martial Arts Program was instrumental in formation of the USTU (http://www.lacancha.com/kmfound.pdf ), which in turn gave lots of momentum to Taekwondo's entry into the Olympics. It's not clear (maybe Puunui could kindly shed some light on this), whether the proposed World Taekwondo Academy will have strong ties to the Kukkiwon or is entirely a WTF project. I also wonder where the UC Berkely folks, especially GM Min, stand on the remote possibilyy of a split between the Kukkiwon and WTF. Although GM Min retired he is still technical advisor of the UC Berkely's Martial Arts program and an advisor to the WTF.

So in essence, if what you say is happening, we will basicly end up with a WTF TKD and a KKW TKD essentially destroying the unification that the pioneers worked towards.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

So in essence, if what you say is happening, we will basicly end up with a WTF TKD and a KKW TKD essentially destroying the unification that the pioneers worked towards.

The south Korea of today is a much is a much different place than is was now that it has a democratically elected govt & is so rich. The military dictatorships are gone & the gangs that helped them rule are being purged.
Since the 1970s the south Korean TKD movement was led by a govt man in a military regime. This man, Dr Kim ruled over all 3 TKD groups, in addition to several Korean sport entities. He was a talented, connected powerhouse that had strong dictatorial backing (& they say Gen Choi was authoritative!). Upon his arrest, conviction & prison sentence it became simply not practical to have TKD, which some say is Korea's greatest gift to the world, tainted by such corruption. The reform of the WTF was led by an academic, not a KCIA operative. Dr Choue has a reputation for integrity earned in the education field, not toughness honed on the wild streets of Korea's past.
This has led to conflict between 2 different groups = academia & martial artists. Given the past corruption & the fact that the ROK has their 1st ever democratically elected center-right govt, such an important Korean asset such as TKD's future will most likely be influenced more by the academia led reform movement. If that happens the 3 groups may work closer together, led more or influenced by the WTF. I could see the possibility of the WTF leading, with the TKD Park becoming the new KKW or new location of the KKW. Then I think what would happen to the historic KKW building? Maybe it could house all 3 groups' offices & be a regional center, who knows, but interesting times indeed for those that follow it

 

[puunui]

Dr Choue has a reputation for integrity earned in the education field, not toughness honed on the wild streets of Korea's past./quote]


President Choue has a reputation as an incompetent, alcoholic womanizer and chain smoker. He was briefly placed in charge of Kyung Hee University, a school that his father (a great man) founded. But great men often times have idiot sons. It is sometimes very hard to grow when the shadow of your father is so large that it blocks out any sunshine that could or should have gone to you. Within a short period of time, President Choue was replaced for incompetence by his younger brother, which is a great shame in Korean culture.

Anyway, President Choue accepted the position of WTF President because he wanted to become an IOC member, like his friend President Park of the IJF.

When he first became WTF President, the other Olympic leaders, especially in Asia, were very interested in what President Choue had to say. They often couldn't wait to be in the presence of Dr. Un Yong KIM, who would share his vision of the world, a vision that everyone could not help but be inspired by. Anyone who has ever had the opportunity to personally interact with Dr. Kim fully understands what I mean. Dr. Kim is seen, not as a Korean sports leader, but as an Asian and world leader.

There was a meeting of Asian Olympic representatives in China before the Beijing Olympics. President Choue showed up and everyone wanted to meet him to see if he was the next Dr. Kim. When he first got there, President Choue's first comments was to ask if there was a room salon (hostess bar) near by, so he could show everyone how much of a man he was by outdrinking everyone under the table. He had no vision to share and seemed only interested in drinking, smoking and sitting with young girls at a hostess bar.

Soon thereafter, President Choue's application for IOC membership died on the vine.

 

[puunui]

Then I think what would happen to the historic KKW building? Maybe it could house all 3 groups' offices & be a regional center, who knows, but interesting times indeed for those that follow it

The land upon which the Kukkiwon sits is leased from the city of Seoul. It is one of the most valuable pieces of land in the entire country, occupying the tallest hill in Kangnam, which is like Park Avenue in Manhattan. If and when the Kukkiwon moves to another location, the land will be given back to the city of Seoul, who will in all likelihood sell it or lease it to the Four Seasons hotel chain or some other business like that. This presents yet another subtle pressure on the Kukkiwon to move to Muju.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

The land upon which the Kukkiwon sits is leased from the city of Seoul. It is one of the most valuable pieces of land in the entire country, occupying the tallest hill in Kangnam, which is like Park Avenue in Manhattan. If and when the Kukkiwon moves to another location, the land will be given back to the city of Seoul, who will in all likelihood sell it or lease it to the Four Seasons hotel chain or some other business like that. This presents yet another subtle pressure on the Kukkiwon to move to Muju.

Good point & since money always seems to rule, then I guess this great historical building will sadly become a thing of the past.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

No. The Kukkiwon continued to donate to the WTF under Presidents UHM and LEE.

I do not think this is accurate. Or at least the KKW is or was saying something different than the WTF.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I think that appointing GM KANG Won Sik as Kukkiwon President will assist, not deter, the efforts to eliminate Kukkiwon and/or move it to Muju. He doesn't seem to be acting in the Kukkiwon's best interest.

Kindly define KKW & then please define the KKW's best interests?

I think the past corruption now has south Korea trying to establish a new team. Maybe some do not think that this new team is welcome, capable or going in a direction that the old school wants or would do. However many, including myself thinks something has to be done. I for one do not profess to know what needs to be done. I do however realize that there are competing interests working here. I am inclined to favor or give leeway to new leadership, as they may not have been involved in problems of the past. Also it is just plain common sense that those in power, wish to stay in power, often for self serving reasons.