TKD and Business are they compatible???
- Thread starter Gorilla
- Start date
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
well, that is not calculating the overhead, but yeah, 6000bucka a month is not bad money
In many areas thats barely rent if at all.
Thats why in this area its more of a no than a yes. You have to run such a kiddie mill program to pay your 7k rent plus MANY more expenses.
Meanwhile a teacher can do a class in the park system 2 days a week for $30 a month. No distractions just a room full of folks training.
Dave O.
Thats why in this area its more of a no than a yes. You have to run such a kiddie mill program to pay your 7k rent plus MANY more expenses.
Meanwhile a teacher can do a class in the park system 2 days a week for $30 a month. No distractions just a room full of folks training.
Dave O.
There are a lot of factors with having a school and if it will stand the test of time I just brought up some of the dont's like selling rank for favors & being a so called master & not taking an active roll in teaching your own classes. Location of a school has alot to do with how things will go in the long run as if you have high monthly cost to begin with that can work against you. Then it also has alot to do with what you teach. Taekwondo as a whole is geared & marketed for the most part to attract children in this country. Some here on this thread will hate me for saying so but it's true. It's marketed & packaged like Little League, AYSO or Pee Wee Football so for the most part there is not a whole lot of focus there on attracting adults. Schools open up, & close down all the time because of this kind of vision but it's not just limited to Taekwondo other teachers' from other styles are guilty of running belt factories for profit as well. I chose to walk away from Taekwondo for these reasons a long time ago & teach other arts. I also found a location I could afford & was able to pay for my lease on the property 3 years in advance so for the moment my only monthly cost are gas, electric, etc. I can focus on giving quality instruction & in the long run my student base will grow as a result of teaching for the right reasons & treating my students the same way I would like to be treated if I were a student looking for a school to train in.
Cirdan
Senior Master
From what I`ve seen I estimate that close to 90% of those who take up MA quit within a year. If the school is a business it will be a major goal to get those 90% to stay longer. Unfortunately more customers want circus and dressing up than real training. It is a short road from true quality to a school full of special programs, black belt clubs and 2-year contracts with guaranted dan grading.
An idealistic and strong membership may make things work, but in the long run greed and politics **** it up.
An idealistic and strong membership may make things work, but in the long run greed and politics **** it up.
Well put, great post!
You reminded me I'm living in America the land of make believe. You hit the nail right on the head with the circus & dressing up comment as it sums it all up as it's all about feeding peoples egos in most schools rather that teach them anything of real value, sad to say.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
The only real overhead to take out of that is the cost of hiring a school hall which can be hired for about $60 a month , so if they hire 2 halls over a month the cost is minimal. Insurances etc are paid by the club not the instructor so that doesnt need to be calculated into that sum either. The money is actually quite good , particularly for the amount of time put in. At my club the instructor gets all the money paid as fees and the club gets all the grading fees. Grading fees are $30 per student to grade , we have 4000 members so the club does well out of it also and I dont see a $30 grading fee 3 or 4 times a year as too expensive for the student. Basically 12 months at $40 per month plus $120 a year in grading fees only comes to $600 a year for a student which is cheaper than most sports especially when you consider it goes all year round and that cost includes training camps, club championships etc.
Of course they are compatible.They have to be or else you will go out of business. There are many different business models you can look at for an example. What it really boils down to is the quality of instruction and people skills. If you are a first rate instructor and have trouble selling yourself then hire a salesperson. If you are a so-so instructor but have great people skills and can sign up students then you should look for a good instructor to go into business with you.
I had a business relationship with my last GM. He let me teach while he sold the programs. After a while, 10 years to be exact, he wanted to retire and I was up the creek without a paddle. I had no idea how to sell myself to people. One day a student came to me and said that he would sign up the students if I let his family train for free. It worked out wonderfully. He showed me some simple sales techniques before relocating across the country and now I could not be happier.
I do not make millions like some claim to but I am very happy. I have just over 100 active students who pay $99 a month using a Paypal subscription service. I never ask for anything upfront and they can cancel at any time. Considering that there are 14 MA schools within a 2 1/2 mile radius I think I am doing well....I still do not like sales but it is important if you want to keep the doors open.
I had a business relationship with my last GM. He let me teach while he sold the programs. After a while, 10 years to be exact, he wanted to retire and I was up the creek without a paddle. I had no idea how to sell myself to people. One day a student came to me and said that he would sign up the students if I let his family train for free. It worked out wonderfully. He showed me some simple sales techniques before relocating across the country and now I could not be happier.
I do not make millions like some claim to but I am very happy. I have just over 100 active students who pay $99 a month using a Paypal subscription service. I never ask for anything upfront and they can cancel at any time. Considering that there are 14 MA schools within a 2 1/2 mile radius I think I am doing well....I still do not like sales but it is important if you want to keep the doors open.
xfighter88
Blue Belt
WOOT TKD dance!
That sounds funny you ahve any links of it, or are you referring to the XMA stuff?
FLTKD
White Belt
One can have the best location, school, instructors and marketing program and still loose students. People quit, plain and simple. That is why and what most people don't get about being a black belt. You didn't quit!
ADULTS:Have you ever thought about maybe it isn't the instruction, location or the art its self, but the people who come to you to learn? I feel it is a different mind set these days.... Hard work outs are too hard, sure they love the at first, but soon they will find a reason to stay home. So we hold fast to what we know and keep working them hard and hope they stay.(90% of ma students quit) I sure the do.... And know it to be fact. But these days I can live with 10% of them staying. Hard work will weed out quality. The rest will go back to their XBOX and Playstations which seems to be our biggest competitors these days NOT other MA schools!
Children: Maybe they are , we are marketing to them because their parents are the real one behind if they stay or go. Sure the love it at first, but it is the parent the sees the value in it at the moment and will still bring them. But keep in mind that all that will change at a drop of the hat!
If some thing better comes along, or the kid complains too much about the classes being too hard, etc.. their gone. This is where some make the mistake, they lower their standards to keep the 90% they were going to quit anyway because they were just trying it out anyway! And end up loosing the 10% that would have stayed to help build your school. Sure the make the money up front but loose alot more in the next few years when they have burned through the community and that 90% coming in have already seen or heard about your dog & pony show. No value left.
TKD and MA's as we know are not for everyone, people come and go. It is the nature of what a school is. I feel you have to teach to everyone, not just one mind set. Not making it easyer on one and harder on others, but understanding what each student is in your school for. Some (very few) what want we wanted and have reached, other are just along for the ride. Doesn't make you a bad instructor or school owner, it is just the nature of what we are doing. I find great satifaction in what I do , more so then anything else I have done, but at times.........
Just my thoughts, Do not wish to offend anyone.
Thanks.
ADULTS:Have you ever thought about maybe it isn't the instruction, location or the art its self, but the people who come to you to learn? I feel it is a different mind set these days.... Hard work outs are too hard, sure they love the at first, but soon they will find a reason to stay home. So we hold fast to what we know and keep working them hard and hope they stay.(90% of ma students quit) I sure the do.... And know it to be fact. But these days I can live with 10% of them staying. Hard work will weed out quality. The rest will go back to their XBOX and Playstations which seems to be our biggest competitors these days NOT other MA schools!
Children: Maybe they are , we are marketing to them because their parents are the real one behind if they stay or go. Sure the love it at first, but it is the parent the sees the value in it at the moment and will still bring them. But keep in mind that all that will change at a drop of the hat!
If some thing better comes along, or the kid complains too much about the classes being too hard, etc.. their gone. This is where some make the mistake, they lower their standards to keep the 90% they were going to quit anyway because they were just trying it out anyway! And end up loosing the 10% that would have stayed to help build your school. Sure the make the money up front but loose alot more in the next few years when they have burned through the community and that 90% coming in have already seen or heard about your dog & pony show. No value left.
TKD and MA's as we know are not for everyone, people come and go. It is the nature of what a school is. I feel you have to teach to everyone, not just one mind set. Not making it easyer on one and harder on others, but understanding what each student is in your school for. Some (very few) what want we wanted and have reached, other are just along for the ride. Doesn't make you a bad instructor or school owner, it is just the nature of what we are doing. I find great satifaction in what I do , more so then anything else I have done, but at times.........
Just my thoughts, Do not wish to offend anyone.
Thanks.
Last edited:
Last edited by a moderator:
dancingalone
Grandmaster
Ah, progress.
Last edited by a moderator:
WOW!! Lost a few students, have we?
All instructors lose students. It is just a fact. Have you ever done an exit interview to see why they quit? I find that most of them leave because they have other obligations and most (75%) will return once their schedule clears up a little. That is, of course, if they are not put off by a contractual dispute or billing "Issue" caused by their absence.
FLTKD
White Belt
Yes, I've lost student.... I'm not new at this. I used to ask. Now I have learned that people will find any reason to quit! There was a time when I took it personal, now I don't. There was a time when I asked why, now I don't. I try to help if it is about money. I like to if at all possible to part on good terms. But remember, by the time someone has finally told you that the are going to quit they have already come to that decission some time before. For what ever reason they have lost the value in what service that you are providing. Some times people would rather put fualt in you and your school then to admit that they have lost interist or can not keep up with the training.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
OK I am lost in the numbners somewhat. In a prior post you mentioned 10-15 hours a week . Is this the numberr of hours you can rent at $60.00 a month?
I rent a park district location for 7.5 hours a week (5 classes and the rent is $500.00 per month.) There was also mention of 150 students at $40.00 each. If I split it down the middle that would average 75 students a class. Way to much for one instructor to handle.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Most instructors I know with 150 students would run 3 classes at separate locations. They would have about 40 - 50 in a class with 3 or 4 third dans or higher who help out particularly when the class is split into smaller groups to work on form etc. They usually hire a school hall for between $50 - $60 month (this means they get the hall for 1 hour twice a week for this price). Therefore if they ran 3 classes at separate locations they could pay about $150 all up for hall hire. Most schools in our area have large school halls which sit empty out of school hours and the schools charge minimal if someone wants to use them as it is a service to the community and the school gets to make an extra few dollars on the side. In this case the instructor would technically only be working 6-7 hours per week. The reason I said 10-15 hours was to allow for time spent organising demos , travel time , picking up new uniforms/sparring gear from the GM's house etc.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
oh, school gyms....
for some reason it is not common in the area where I live to use hem for activities outside school. We did use them for grading once every 2 month, not sure what the school owners paid, but I don't think it was cheap, talking one evening here, not a greater commitment.
for some reason it is not common in the area where I live to use hem for activities outside school. We did use them for grading once every 2 month, not sure what the school owners paid, but I don't think it was cheap, talking one evening here, not a greater commitment.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
The thing we love about the school halls is the sheer size. The one I currently train in would be 70 metres long and about 50 metres wide with a big stage at one end , great ventillation and lighting and a seating area for parents etc. We find we can hire them very cheap if it is a regular booking for a long period of time. It can be a lot more costly when we try to hire one as a 'one off'.
