TKD and Business are they compatible???

[Gorilla]

Can you run a good Martial Arts School with quality instruction and operate it as a successful business?

The most difficult thing about this question is how do you define a good "Martial Arts School" and what is the definition of a "successful business" as it relates to the Martial Arts.

I think that it is a fascinating question considering that most people get into the Martial Arts because they are fascinated by it and then grow to love it. Most are not business people. Very few are able to open schools that make $. Yet some are very successful from a monetary stand point.

Can the two(Art/Profit) coexist and still uphold the integrity of the art?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Foot_Fist_Way

Hehehehe, just kidding.

 

[Gorilla]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Foot_Fist_Way

Hehehehe, just kidding.

I have to see it!!!!

 

[romaj]

I think you can. I mean people want to pay for quality and are willing to pay for it.

 

[Gary Crawford]

Very good question, in fact most instructors/school owners struggle with this everyday. My first instructors were very fortunate that they had all the key ingredients-right time(1970's) right place( San Jose,Ca ) and the right people. They had more students and people wanting to be students than they had room. Today, very very few are so lucky. These guys didn't have to worry about things like "if I push my students too hard they will quit" or trying not to offend certain parents. We trained behind closed doors and if it got too hard for anyone,they could replace any student who quit instantly. Now we have to be very carefull what we do and say so we can keep the fees coming in and the bills paid,but at the same time,we want to train our students to be good quality martial artists worthy of the rank they hold. This will probably always be the ongoing question.

 

[Gorilla]

Very good question, in fact most instructors/school owners struggle with this everyday. My first instructors were very fortunate that they had all the key ingredients-right time(1970's) right place( San Jose,Ca ) and the right people. They had more students and people wanting to be students than they had room. Today, very very few are so lucky. These guys didn't have to worry about things like "if I push my students too hard they will quit" or trying not to offend certain parents. We trained behind closed doors and if it got too hard for anyone,they could replace any student who quit instantly. Now we have to be very carefull what we do and say so we can keep the fees coming in and the bills paid,but at the same time,we want to train our students to be good quality martial artists worthy of the rank they hold. This will probably always be the ongoing question.

It is a very difficult balance! How do you balance quality and commercialism?
Many have stated that commercialism is what is wrong with Martial Arts today!

 

[Gary Crawford]

Gorilla, my balance consists of having a full time job! If it wasn't for that, I'd probably be running another McDojo! Fortunatly, I do have enough other income that I don't need to be profitable, but I usually am. That cushon is what keeps my teaching quality up.

 

[Gorilla]

Gorilla, my balance consists of having a full time job! If it wasn't for that, I'd probably be running another McDojo! Fortunatly, I do have enough other income that I don't need to be profitable, but I usually am. That cushon is what keeps my teaching quality up.

Yours is a very familiar story to me. it is the story of our Martial Arts instructor. The question that is in my mind is can you run a Martial Arts Business and support yourself in a manner that you would enjoy and not have to do an outside job without turning it into a McDojo??? Are they diametrically opposed.

 

[granfire]

well, here we go again, perennial equation success in business equals McDojo.

I think there are several factors.

One is the market. You are in a small community you won't be able to make much of your school, money wise. Even if you are the only option for MA.

Personal drive.
Some people have the drive to make thing happen. This is what they want to do and all they want to do. They better make some money off of it.

however, not everybody is good at all aspects of the game.
You can have a successful business plan but be a disaster as a teacher or vice versa be a splendid teacher but not have enough business sense to write a rent check 9or get out of the rain)

I find that usually people who lack the drive or the business sense cry 'McDojo'

then we have he problem of what is success.

The Bentley in the garage? Or a stable client base?

 

[Carol]

Personally I don't think success in business automatically equals a McDojo.

However, I do think that a McDojo is the result of some folks that pursue success in business because they know of no other view than profit.

Take for example, the car business.

On one end of the scale, you have cars like Kia, that are focused on getting as many cars on to the market as they possibly can and do so at one of the most affordable price points.

On the other, there is Lamborghini, who makes only a handful of cars each year, at a price point that very few can afford, yet they typically sell out in advance and are prized around the world.

And naturally, there are many different levels in between.

Each model has a very different sales and operations strategy.

 

[IcemanSK]

In my town is a guy who runs a very successful personal training business. He charges a very hefty price for his services & people flock to him in droves. I've not heard anyone say "his business is no good." It might not be worth someone's time or money, but the desired results of the clients happens there all the time.

His business shows me that it's possible to make a living in an athletic training business. It gives me hope for MAists. But it's the HOW to do it in MA. I have no idea how to do it. I think part of the way to do it is to maintain a professional distance, that many of us MA instructors struggle with doing. I also know entirely too many instructors that are successful in other fields & teach purely because they love it.

I guess I'd suggest that someone who wanted to teach full time get an MBA in addition to their BB ranks. That's what Ernie Reyes Sr. did. He's done ok for himself...& I don't think the word McDojang is ever correctly applied to his product.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Like it or not this is a persona / personality driven business. You can be a great martial artist and great instructor, but if your persona is not right studets will not stick around.

Conversely, consumers are very naive when it comes to martial Arts.
I believe 90% of martial Art consumers never venture outside their own little circle. Also know numerous stories where students were forbidden to observe, let alonre participate in competitions / seminars outside that circle. (Hmmm i wonder why?)

You can teach junk but have the right persona and follow the right business model and be successful.

These things are not mutualy exclusive. However, if people have a choice they will often follow this priority. 1. Pick the school with convenient location and classes. 2. More than one choice, pick the least expensive.

 

[granfire]

Conversely, consumers are very naive when it comes to martial Arts.
I believe 90% of martial Art consumers never venture outside their own little circle. Also know numerous stories where students were forbidden to observe, let alonre participate in competitions / seminars outside that circle. (Hmmm i wonder why?)

I am not sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing, but that is not an MA exclusive. I have talked to people in other sports who give themselves basically nightmares and bleeding ulcers wondering if their trainer is going to throw a tandrum when they buy a horse he/she didn't have a say so in (and being shown the barn door) or taking a lesson with another trainer (even watching a clinic or seminar)

Personally I find that scary, but then I am somewhat of a closet renegade.

 

[miguksaram]

The problem is the instructor/owner wearing too many hats. They try to be the marketing department, school manager, accounting, webmaster and some where in there they have to be the teacher. It is too much. What you need to do is delegate positions to people who A) know what they are doing, B) understand your visions and goals C) are willing to work next to nothing (Usually 'C' is the hardest part to fine. )

The key is to have job definitions and people to fill them. Hold weekly, bi-weekly or monthly staff meetings so everyone is on the same page. Hold people accountable for their duties. Basicly you treat the school like an actual business instead of a hobby, which most teachers do. Unless the instructor is extremely business savy, he/she should stick to teaching and let others who are more qualify cover that area.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Can you run a good Martial Arts School with quality instruction and operate it as a successful business?

The most difficult thing about this question is how do you define a good "Martial Arts School" and what is the definition of a "successful business" as it relates to the Martial Arts.

I think that it is a fascinating question considering that most people get into the Martial Arts because they are fascinated by it and then grow to love it. Most are not business people. Very few are able to open schools that make $. Yet some are very successful from a monetary stand point.

Can the two(Art/Profit) coexist and still uphold the integrity of the art?

You can substitute 'quality product' for quality instruction and ask the same question of any field.

Financial success in its most basic form means making enough to meet or exceed your expenses, including payroll.

If your goal is to run a school because you love teaching martial arts and would rather do that than work the treadmill day in and day out, then you are more likely to maintain a quality product and simply love what you are doing, though you may not make a whole lot of money.

If you are using martial arts as an entrepreneurial opportunity, then the financial return is the only consideration and the product will suffer.

There is a nice ballance somewhere in between.

Danie.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Can you run a good Martial Arts School with quality instruction and operate it as a successful business?

The most difficult thing about this question is how do you define a good "Martial Arts School" and what is the definition of a "successful business" as it relates to the Martial Arts.

I think that it is a fascinating question considering that most people get into the Martial Arts because they are fascinated by it and then grow to love it. Most are not business people. Very few are able to open schools that make $. Yet some are very successful from a monetary stand point.

Can the two(Art/Profit) coexist and still uphold the integrity of the art?

IMO it would depend on your priorities..... what is more important that martial art.... or the business

 

[Manny]

When I was a teen my goal was to reach BB and make a living from TKD/MA, my father wanted me to have a University degree so I studied Chemical Ingeniering cause I like chemistry. When finish university a star working in the family bussiness and droped TKD.

I never quit dreaming about my dojo/dojang but work,familty and responsabilities didin't leave me go for it.

Today here in my country the TKD dojangs that are sucessfull as a bussines are the dojangs that opened their doors in the early 80's or 90's, today with the world wide financial troubles in my country many people or eat or go donjang to training.

So to have some degree of sucess if I wanted to run my own dojang will be to keep my actual job and before 5-6 pm teach in my dojo till 9-10 pm and hope dojang bussiness will go fine.

At this time runing only a dojang without any other bussines support is not easy in my country, at least for a grwon man with family to feed.

Manny

 

[ATC]

Just like any school the student only get out what they put in. You don't see a school full of 4.0 students nor will you see any TKD school with all super stars.

You can be sucessful and produce some good martial artist at the same time. The some may only be a few but that is par for most schools. Not everyone wants to put in the time and effort needed to excel.

I know that in our school the head instructor will only give the added touch to those that he sees going the extra mile. Those students that practice at home, no the techniques without being reminded. The students that try and put forth effort. When you look around and count those student you will see that there are only a few.

Funny thing is that those top students get taught for free for the most part and the money is made off the ones that don't put forth the effort. The top student benifit by being the face of the school and the owner benifits by using them as a marketing tool if you will. So it is a win win in those cases. As for the ones that don't put forth effort, sad to say it is a win lose, as the own wins by getting money and the student loses by getting nothing really.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I do my best to observe other successful instructors and try to learn what makes them sucsesful like this Kung Fu Master here in my area. He has several schools and each has at least one competent instructor under him. The thing I like most about him is that he makes his rounds to all the schools regularly and pays close attention to each and every student. Nobody ever feels ignored by him. Jade Tigres can testify to this,he was her instructor before she moved back up north.

 

[Gorilla]

The problem is the instructor/owner wearing too many hats. They try to be the marketing department, school manager, accounting, webmaster and some where in there they have to be the teacher. It is too much. What you need to do is delegate positions to people who A) know what they are doing, B) understand your visions and goals C) are willing to work next to nothing (Usually 'C' is the hardest part to fine. )

The key is to have job definitions and people to fill them. Hold weekly, bi-weekly or monthly staff meetings so everyone is on the same page. Hold people accountable for their duties. Basicly you treat the school like an actual business instead of a hobby, which most teachers do. Unless the instructor is extremely business savy, he/she should stick to teaching and let others who are more qualify cover that area.

Why are so many Masters so reluctant to ask for help or even accept it if it is offered?