Self Defense in TKD class

[Tez3]

Honestly, I have never seen boon-hae (bunkai) taught with taekwondo poomsae at any school that I have visited or attended. When I teach, I do my own boon hae, based on knowing what the techniques in the poomsae are for, but the Kukkiwon has no established boon hae to my knowledge. From what I have seen from people posting on MT and other places, neither does the ITF, ATA, or ITA, though that is speculation on my part. I started a thread on the subject of bunkai in TKD a while back and the consesus seemed to be that boon hae is not generally taught in most schools. This was reinforced in the thread about Simon O'Neil's book, the Taegeuk Cipher.




Daniel

I have to ask then why are people teaching patterns if they don't teach the meanings in them? What reason is given for teaching other than they 'look pretty' lol?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I have to ask then why are people teaching patterns if they don't teach the meanings in them? What reason is given for teaching other than they 'look pretty' lol?

Two fold:

1. Forms have always been taught and are "part of taekwondo." Also, many tournaments have a forms segment, so a competition focused school could easily teach paterns just for competition which is essentially to 'look pretty' in the eyes of specific judges.

2. It makes, as you observed in your previous post, a good exercise for grading purposes.

Another factor is, in my opinion, that somewhere along the line, the emphasis on boon hae was moved away from and subsequent students simply never learned it. When those students became instructors, they had no basis to teach it, and often, no idea that they could be teaching it.

I see this as one of the many sins of focusing on Olympic inclusion and the rise of McDojos. It is also possible that the emphasis was simply never developed after TKD moved away from its Shotokan roots and TKD specific forms were developed.

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

Two fold:

1. Forms have always been taught and are "part of taekwondo." Also, many tournaments have a forms segment, so a competition focused school could easily teach paterns just for competition which is essentially to 'look pretty' in the eyes of specific judges.

2. It makes, as you observed in your previous post, a good exercise for grading purposes.

Another factor is, in my opinion, that somewhere along the line, the emphasis on boon hae was moved away from and subsequent students simply never learned it. When those students became instructors, they had no basis to teach it, and often, no idea that they could be teaching it.

I see this as one of the many sins of focusing on Olympic inclusion and the rise of McDojos. It is also possible that the emphasis was simply never developed after TKD moved away from its Shotokan roots and TKD specific forms were developed.

Daniel

It's such a shame, people who haven't been taught Bunkai miss so much and end up thinking kata/patterns/forms are just 'dancing'. I also think learning katas and Bunkai is an enjoyable thing in itself. There's just so much that helps with the rest of your MA, whether it's sparring or SD. I'd better be careful here or I'll turn it into an I love Kata thread lol!

thanks for your replies Daniel!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Kata and bunkai is something that has been kind of lost in translation between the movement away from taekwondo's karate roots and the present. Not lost for good though. The fact that O'Neil took the time to write a book about it shows that it has not been forgotten and that instructors are voicing the need.

Daniel

 

[IcemanSK]

Kata and bunkai is something that has been kind of lost in translation between the movement away from taekwondo's karate roots and the present. Not lost for good though. The fact that O'Neil took the time to write a book about it shows that it has not been forgotten and that instructors are voicing the need.

Daniel

There are others, but we can also add our own StuartA to the list of authors on the subject.

 

[dortiz]

Hmmm. I am confused. kata are a set of movements. Each movement is taught as techniques in class. To say one does not know the movements may not be accurate. Even so do the form a thousand times and then spar. You will be shocked at how you turn and react in such fashion. Thats what it does it teaches you muscle memory.
I love Stuarts and Simon work and think that there is huge value in looking how we can apply techniques because it makes us think about our practice and be much better.
Remember Kata were a way to pass on all the techniques back in day as well. I think we can also make sure that the techniques within them are being taught and if not they should. The bigger discussion is really are there different techniques than we think as the two Authors point out and if so I promise you different schools would teach differnt variants.
Given that I say do your Kata and do it well. As a second practice each person should try see how many variations in a fight a move may provide. I almost think you can learn more that way.

Dave O.

 

[Tez3]

There are others, but we can also add our own StuartA to the list of authors on the subject.

Absolutely!!
Also Iain Abernethy's work covers all styles and is brilliant.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If you like the alternate application stuff, my article in the May issue of Totaly TKD adresses the issue with regard to the ITF / Chang Hon Patterns.

 

[StuartA]

Honestly, I have never seen boon-hae (bunkai) taught with taekwondo poomsae at any school that I have visited or attended.

We do. in fact I did a whole class on it last night!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB9K6ljoy-c

:angel:

 

[StuartA]

If you like the alternate application stuff, my article in the May issue of Totaly TKD adresses the issue with regard to the ITF / Chang Hon Patterns.

Having read the article I am happy to say its a worthy read, even though, weirdly enough, a part of it conflicts with 'part 3' of the Hae Sul series (my articles), though thats just co-incidence..

It will be interesting for people to read it and then give their views on it and see which side of the fence people sit on.

Stuart

 

[Earl Weiss]

Having read the article I am happy to say its a worthy read, even though, weirdly enough, a part of it conflicts with 'part 3' of the Hae Sul series (my articles), though thats just co-incidence..

It will be interesting for people to read it and then give their views on it and see which side of the fence people sit on.

Stuart

Mr. Anslow,

That is a beutiful thing. People can have conflicting ideas, agree to disagree and let others make their own judgements as to which idea they prefer. Either way through stimulation of the thought process a greater good has been achieved.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

We do. in fact I did a whole class on it last night!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB9K6ljoy-c

:angel:

I know you do. You are one of the reasons that I am a paticipant on this board, sir.

Daniel

 

[karatemom]

If you like the alternate application stuff, my article in the May issue of Totaly TKD adresses the issue with regard to the ITF / Chang Hon Patterns.

ITA's Ho-Am (Tiger Rock) patterns were created from the Chang Hon patterns and are very similar.