The Wing Chun fighting stance explained

[DaveB]

I've heard it theorise that chun was actually inspired by 18th or 19th century boxing. Am I alone in seeing the similarities?

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

A good video
I havent heard anything about your claim, but many older fighting styles had more similarities than differences.
We are all human afterall.

 

[Denoaikido]

That was a good video. I learn something new everyday here thanks again for sharing.

 

[drop bear]

There isn't really much in wing chun that isn't included in boxing. Except for the obvious like kicks.

But you will see hand trapping and vertical fists and all sorts of tactics utilized.

 

[DaveB]

There isn't really much in wing chun that isn't included in boxing. Except for the obvious like kicks.

But you will see hand trapping and vertical fists and all sorts of tactics utilized.

Well, since Lomanchenko you see that stuff.

 

[KPM]

Well, since Lomanchenko you see that stuff.

No. I remember Alexis Arguello was a very "center-line oriented" fighter and punched very straight with almost a vertical fist.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well, since Lomanchenko you see that stuff.

Some of Lomenchenko's stuff looks like what Aikido would be if it was boxing. (I'm not sure what that statement even means.)

 

[Eric_H]

I've heard it theorise that chun was actually inspired by 18th or 19th century boxing. Am I alone in seeing the similarities?

Yeah, an art that can be traced back at least as far as 1850, and by legend mid 1700's would certainly be influenced by something that came 100-200 years later in a foreign country...

The mechanics of power delivery and weight distribution are entirely different. Any influence Boxing would have had on WC would be since the 1960's.

 

[yak sao]

Not too farfetched of a theory if you consider the possibility of western sailors who may have had some boxing experience, encountering some Chinese boxers in the southern ports of China.

Could the art we now know as WIng Chun be a mix of an earlier Hakka art perhaps, with western boxing influence?....not saying it is, but again, not so out in left field.

Also, Western boxing is every bit as old as the Chinese arts. It's been around since the ancient Greeks.

 

[KPM]

I think the idea that Wing Chun was derived or influenced by "old school" boxing via Merchant Marines sailing to southern China is an interesting idea, but total BS. Karl Godwin is the author of that theory from way back. Here is his old article:

Black Belt

 

[geezer]

I think the idea that Wing Chun was derived or influenced by "old school" boxing via Merchant Marines sailing to southern China is an interesting idea, but total BS. Karl Godwin is the author of that theory from way back. Here is his old article:

Black Belt

Hi KPM, please post more ...we miss you! Anyway, regarding ^^^ I'd say it was not so much "BS" as simply an unsupported hypothesis from back in the days when there was a whole lot less information about Wing Chun available, aside from each lineage's own unreliable oral traditions.

Certainly, the similarity of the postures between old time bare-knuckle Western boxers and old time southern Chinese bare-knuckle boxers ....especially Wing Chun fighters, was something we all noticed. Funny how people didn't look first at the simplest and most obvious explanation which is, IMO, that similar physical activities (namely Eastern and Western stand-up bare knuckle boxing styles) would likely resemble each other out of pure necessity.

 

[DaveB]

Hi KPM, please post more ...we miss you! Anyway, regarding ^^^ I'd say it was not so much "BS" as simply an unsupported hypothesis from back in the days when there was a whole lot less information about Wing Chun available, aside from each lineage's own unreliable oral traditions.

Certainly, the similarity of the postures between old time bare-knuckle Western boxers and old time southern Chinese bare-knuckle boxers ....especially Wing Chun fighters, was something we all noticed. Funny how people didn't look first at the simplest and most obvious explanation which is, IMO, that similar physical activities (namely Eastern and Western stand-up bare knuckle boxing styles) would likely resemble each other out of pure necessity.

That was my thinking, but then everyone told me the wing chun guard and stance sucked and they needed to use a modern boxing guard. Also blocking is impossible. And high kicks don't work...

 

[drop bear]

That was my thinking, but then everyone told me the wing chun guard and stance sucked and they needed to use a modern boxing guard. Also blocking is impossible. And high kicks don't work...

You can either make it work or you can't. Historically validated doesn't really count.

 

[Danny T]

You can either make it work or you can't. Historically validated doesn't really count.

^^^^^ This!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

everyone told me the wing chun guard and stance sucked and they needed to use a modern boxing guard. ...

The boxing guard is not better than the WC guard. It's trade off.

Boxing guard:

PRO:

- Both arms have same reach.
- Protect center from outside in.
- Easy to use double downward circles to separate opponent's arm and obtain the center.

CON:

- Center line is exposed.
- t's easy for your opponent to use double upward circles to separate your arms and obtain your center.

WC guard:

PRO:

- Center is well protected.
- Protect center from inside out.
- Easy to use double upward circles to separate opponent's arm and obtain the center.

CON:

- 1 long arm and 1 short arm.
- It's easy for your opponent to push your leading arm and jam your back arm.

 

[DaveB]

You can either make it work or you can't. Historically validated doesn't really count.

How does that work?

Historically validated means it not only works, but according to the logic of competition, that it is the best position for the circumstances, ie bare knuckle.

Whether or not I can use it in the here and now is thus a reflection on me and my skills, not the method.

 

[drop bear]

How does that work?

Historically validated means it not only works, but according to the logic of competition, that it is the best position for the circumstances, ie bare knuckle.

Whether or not I can use it in the here and now is thus a reflection on me and my skills, not the method.

Then we go train with the guy who can make the method work.

Who would that guy be?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How does that work?

Historically validated means it not only works, but according to the logic of competition, that it is the best position for the circumstances, ie bare knuckle.

Whether or not I can use it in the here and now is thus a reflection on me and my skills, not the method.

It could also mean that the style (or understanding of it) has degraded since the time when it was applied. Or that historical application was exaggerated.

We always have to allow for those possibilities, and look for ways to validate in the here and now.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There isn't really much in wing chun that isn't included in boxing. Except for the obvious like kicks.

But you will see hand trapping and vertical fists and all sorts of tactics utilized.

lol.. looks more like Jow Ga Kung Fu to me.

 

[DaveB]

Then we go train with the guy who can make the method work.

Who would that guy be?

Me. My friend Sai. Sai's sifu. Sifu Mark Phillips.... There are more martial artists than just famous combat sportsmen.