How to Box with Wing Chun

kung fu fighter

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In Pin Sun we use the waist/Kua much more and can essentially "pivot" without moving the feet at all. So we are using the YGKYM when in close and only really pivoting when we need to take an angle.

Understood! this was something that came to me naturally after years of training in chi sao. My first exposure to this formally was in the fut sao wck system which they refer to as torque power. years later I saw it again in PSWC. I also used this in close range as it's much faster doing a full juen.

in the videos I also liked how you used constant moving footwork with milling on the outside.
 
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KPM

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This is not really part of the "How to Box with Wing Chun" series. But it still is pertinent. This one is on Posture and how to generate Power. Comments welcome!

Posture & Power - YouTube
 

Kung Fu Wang

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This is not really part of the "How to Box with Wing Chun" series. But it still is pertinent. This one is on Posture and how to generate Power. Comments welcome!

Posture & Power - YouTube

I like many things that you have shown in your clip such as to keep your Kua loose. You have open mind and that's a good thing. But IMO, you can open your mind even further. If you believe that pigeon toed stance is for training, you should not let your training to "restrict" your combat application. Why do you want to let your 50-50 weight distribution to set any physical limitation on yourself. Will you do a "superman punch" if you have the opportunity to finish a fight and knock your opponent out?

To be honest, every time that I work the "superman punch" on my punching bag (or striking dummy), I truly don't know what style that I'm training at that particular moment. It's the shock that come back from my striking target, that gives me the satisfaction. As long as I know that I can use it to knock down my opponent if needed, that's all I care about.

I know the 0-0 weight distribution "superman punch" is not WC. It's just an example that there are more different weight distribution than 50-50. Since you want to discuss "how to box with WC", I assume you may want to discuss more than just WC, but I can be wrong and may be you want to talk about "only WC".

superman_punch_1.jpg
 
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Kwan Sau

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....there are more different weight distribution than 50-50

absolutely agree with this KFW!
Now, as to KPM's video...if you keep in mind that he is coming from a Pin Sun background, it will help with viewing his video.
I always try to keep in mind that whenever he states in the video: "...good WC doesn't slouch".... or...."good WC mechanics is 50/50" etc etc that he should be saying 'Pin Sun' in front of all.
 
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KPM

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absolutely agree with this KFW!
Now, as to KPM's video...if you keep in mind that he is coming from a Pin Sun background, it will help with viewing his video.
I always try to keep in mind that whenever he states in the video: "...good WC doesn't slouch".... or...."good WC mechanics is 50/50" etc etc that he should be saying 'Pin Sun' in front of all.

You are absolutely right Kwan. I should probably preface each video with "from a Pin Sun perspective....." Even more accurately I should probably say "from the perspective of Henry Mui's Pin Sun"...... But actually, I have done Yip Man Wing Chun extensively and I have some background in William Cheung's TWC. I also have lots of training in sports medicine. So in this particular video I am trying to address what I have found to be good biomechanics in general....regardless of your flavor of Wing Chun. It just happens to match Pin Sun, which is the primary reason I chose to switch from Yip man Wing Chun to Pin Sun and go to some lengths to be able to study it. Again, I was addressing what I see to be "optimal"....meaning what is the most efficient way to do things within Wing Chun. Like I said in the video, people can obviously do things differently from what I show, and do them very well! But that does not mean that what they are doing is "optimal." The "Wing Chun slouch" is a perfect example. Its bad mechanics and its bad for your health.

As far as 50/50 weight distro....yes John, there are certainly other weightings, and they will show up at times! Again, what I was talking about is what is optimal to use as your base-line method. If something big and heavy is hurdling directly toward my center and I don't have time to step you better believe I'm going to pivot with a 90/10 weight distro! ;-)
 

dlcox

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Good videos Keith. My first Yongchun teacher was a professional boxer and stressed many of the points you spoke of plus some.
 

Tong Chuang

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How would you handle these punches?

Apparently the guy who did the knockouts wasn't the one who started the fight:

RUSSIAN COURT CASE
''Nikolai Vlasenko, master of sports of boxing, tried to peacefully resolve the conflict. However, jerks of easy money and power in the country looking into a drunken stupor rush with fists on the boxer. Pay attention to the video, the two brawlers attack on one person. Nicholas was forced to defend himself, and put his hands in front of him.''

BIIkOCKwtAdca_6bAWvuJbaVqZhHAZaXl0SDDeLuxw9ZdFMoGJqkW8vOnYHWkS2K4_F_mJZBcjjnG8r0hWxF=w633-h357-n


see fuller video:

https://plus.google.com/115476629444782202193/posts/ZetJbQ3NqRn
 
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KPM

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How would you handle these punches?

Well, first and foremost....don't just walk right into them with your hands down!!!! :-O

Secondly, the guy is telegraphing his punches, so don't be on the end of them when they come!

Third, since he is telegraphing and committing a lot of power to his punches, a good side step with a Pak or Biu and he is going to go off-balance pretty readily. Then close in!

Fourth, play the "boxing game" a bit. He is punching with everything he's got. So stay just far enough away from him and let him throw a few and get tired. Then close in on him between punches.
 

wingchunguy

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You CAN'T use boxing with wing chun, it totally DESTROYS the wing chun making it crappy and useless. Wing chun is the only FULLY CONCEPTUAL martial art on the planet. Boxing is technique-based, meaning,the techniques dictate the response, not the concepts, making it stiff, rigid and limited in it's response. So by adding boxing, you are making your wing chun stiff, rigid and limit, as opposed to flexible and unlimited. What you see on you tube is unskilled, MODIFIED wing chun, NOT the traditional, which is complete. You want to make wing chun better and make sure it works on the street?? Well, then learn TRADITIONAL and learn the complete system!
 

wingchunguy

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Well then you are going to go down because you are leaning back and your energy is going backwards, not forward. I think you better go back to William cheung's system, it apparently is much better. I know, that is the system I do. It is the most complete system out there.
 

wingchunguy

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That came from Wong Shun Leung and is absolutely correct. That saying is crucial in wing chun,as well as you entering as soon as the hands are released. THIS is the problem and what you DON'T see here on you tube. Fencing won't work here. If you try to punch first, then you are creating an opening that your opponent can exploit. You ALWAYS start with initial contact FIRST, and a step to close the distance (Angled, to the OUTSIDE of your opponent's attacking arm) until you are close enough to either enter when the hands are released, or use contact one more time to close the distance to close combat range, where you trap the arm and leg, and counter.
 

wingchunguy

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As an outsider the problem I see with wc is that there seems to be a lot of guys talking and theorizing about "concepts" and "scientific" approach but we see very little demonstration of technique against a resisting partner of comparable skill. You see wc guys making videos about how to beat style x,y,z but you don't see the other styles making videos about how to beat wc. We may be seeing a slow change in the wc community but wc guys will have to prove that all their theory and concepts work. Of course you have the standard, "wc is not a sport" tired argument and it will never change anyone's opinion.

Well the concepts are what make wing chun flexible and tailorable to your abilities or disabilities, your personality and most importantly, that of your opponent. The concepts have been proven for over 400 years now, in rooftop fights and fights against boxers, muay thai guys and other martial arts like karate, when the japanese invaded china. Wing chun is not a sport. By making it a sport, you have to take out the essence of wing chun that makes it work properly.
 

wingchunguy

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the practitioners in this video don't really seem to be of comparable skill. Not really sure about the wc guy but the kb-er looks very shy and doesn't seem to be able to throw a proper kick. Of course a lot of wc haters would say this about any video where a wc guys seems to get the upper hand, but in this case the kb guy really looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.

Well that is because the wing chun guy is using FORWARD INTENT and forward momentum to stop the kick boxer from setting up. This guy is a modified wc guy and not even using REAL wing chun, but you can still see it is effective.
 

wingchunguy

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Such a 100% committed finish seems more characteristic of a very external system like Hung ga or Shotokan Karate, and honestly isn't very representative of WC. One of the WC principles (at least of my lineage) is Mo kuen yat fat or no one-punch technique. We refrain from over committing, even as a "finish". It does make for a nice demo though.



Also, do you really think that TCMA, as a rule, hit's harder than a western boxer? I mean, while I am committed to WC and respect the surprising short power it can help us develop, I really don't think you should undervalue the punching power of a good boxer!

Well you shouldn't underestimate the power of the wing chun punch, considering it comes from a foot or less as opposed to three feet or more with any boxing derivative.
 

wingchunguy

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According to Jesse Glover and Ted Wong, that's precisely what Bruce discovered. His brother was a competition fencer.
Well you're WRONG! Fencing uses large steps and you over commit your response by putting most of the weight on the front leg. In wing chun we NEVER, EVER do that! We always remain balanced no matter what.
 

wingchunguy

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Understood! this was something that came to me naturally after years of training in chi sao. My first exposure to this formally was in the fut sao wck system which they refer to as torque power. years later I saw it again in PSWC. I also used this in close range as it's much faster doing a full juen.

in the videos I also liked how you used constant moving footwork with milling on the outside.
It may be faster, but it isn't as safe as stepping to the outside of your opponent's attacking arm,as in the William Cheung system. If you ever fought an experienced boxer, he'd be kicking the **** out of you, because he uses multiple attacks.
 
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