The Meaning of Ninja

[Hanzo04]

i have a statement and a question. I was talking to Shidoshi Gabe Logan today in Illinois (he is of the Bujinkan) and i asked him the all important question. "Do you consider yourself a ninja?" and said he has been a ninja for 15 years. he went on to say that anybody who studies ninjutsu is a ninja. now my thinkig was since Takamatsu O'sensei was the last ninja to do government jobs no-one was a ninja, not even Soke Hatsumi. Do you guys agree with that? I'm confused.

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

It depends on what definition you use for 'ninja.'


Shidoshi Gabe Logan considers himself a ninja because his definition is: Ninja = someone who practices ninjutsu. Your definition is: Ninja = someone who does government jobs.

My definition is: Ninja = someone who does ninja things (ninja is as ninja does).

 

[Hanzo04]

Okay then that means everyone who practices ninjutsu is a ninja. now i want to ask what is the meaning of ninja in modern times? can anybody that practices budo taijutsu in the Bujinkan be called a ninja?

 

[Cryozombie]

Its all a matter of semantics. Some people will say yes, Ninja, others will say No, ninja... it doenst matter, as far as I am concerned.

What do I say? Depends on my mood and the day of the week.

Gabe is a great guy, BTW... I enjoyed my training with him a great deal.

 

[Floating Egg]

Who would feel comfortable refering to themselves as Samurai?

 

[Cryozombie]

*Shrug*

I would if I felt ties to their "ways" beyond the Martial Aspects... But Id call myself a lot of things, including some that werent so flattering depending on my mood... so...

 

[Shaolinwind]

Who would feel comfortable refering to themselves as Samurai?

Well, there is this guy.. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047478/board/nest/2689122

 

[stephen]

I'm confused.

You feel that a lot, hmmm....

How many months have you been posting silly questions about the Bujinkan? How many classes have you attended?

 

[arnisador]

Someone in the Bujinkan practices Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, right? Is such a person a taijutsuka? Am I right that Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu, as the art was formerly described in public, is no longer taght under that name? It sounds like there are no new ninjas being made!

 

[Mountain Kusa]

Garden Variety answer;

Ninja - to endure and persevere.

Samurai - To serve

" to endure and persevere those who would serve". Those who have chosen to become masters and rule over those they should serve. Sound familier in todays world?

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

To me it is more of a mind set, physicalness is only the beginning.

.o2 kachingka

 

[Shaolinwind]

It sounds like there are no new ninjas being made!

I know, and it sucks because I have to resort to the A-Team when I need covert work done. Hannibal is such a smug ***.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Someone in the Bujinkan practices Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, right? Is such a person a taijutsuka?

We tend to simply say budoka.

Am I right that Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu, as the art was formerly described in public, is no longer taght under that name? It sounds like there are no new ninjas being made!

There weren't back then either. But Togakure ryu is still being taught, though I seriously doubt the majority of Bujinkan shidoshi have in-depth knowledge about said school.

Personally, I find all the excuses people come up with nowadays to refer to themselves as ninja and samurai utterly ridiculous.

 

[Floating Egg]

Well, I think we can all agree than language is ambiguous, and that it changes over time. I consider Ninja and Samurai historical terms, and I use them in the appropriate context.

 

[Mickey Mullins]

To me it is more of a mind set, physicalness is only the beginning.

This is a very good point.Being a ninja really has nothing to do with "government jobs" or even "fighting".Hatsumi Sensei uses the taijutsu and er um ... killing, as a vehicle to show us something more important.....living,IMHO.

So to further expand on this thread (SO AS TO MAKE IT MORE USEFUL),what would the ninja mindset be ?

Mickey Mullins

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

"The Bujinkan is about killing people."

- Hatsumi sensei approximately one year ago.

:idunno:

 

[Floating Egg]

"The Bujinkan is about killing people."

- Hatsumi sensei approximately one year ago.

That's not all it is, but yeah, he's right. Let's not sugar coat it.

 

[Hanzo04]

Why is it when ever i have a sincere question about MA somebody always has to make a stupid remark about my question. I have an inquisitive mind and i like to know things for myself so i can figure things out. None of my questions are stupid. I can't understand why you guys don't like me. It's not fair. I have done plenty of research on the Bujinkan and no I don't take ninjutsu now (i will in the spring). what i had to say was a real event that happened yesterday. I don't ask questions to sound stupid or start arguments. I want to know things, that's why i signed up. But NOOOO, everyone on this forum wants to put people down just to make themselves feel powerfull. A lot of you are on an ego trip and you gotta get over yourselves. And stay on the question at hand. how come someone has to always go off subject. i asked a yes or no question. i didn't ask what dr. Hatsumi said, i asked what YOU think personally.

 

[DWeidman]

...now my thinkig was since Takamatsu O'sensei was the last ninja to do government jobs no-one was a ninja, not even Soke Hatsumi. Do you guys agree with that? I'm confused.

No. I don't agree with that.

Any other questions?

-Daniel Weidman
Bujinkan TenChiJin Guy

 

[Hanzo04]

thank you for responding honestly DWeidman

 

[Don Roley]

Why is it when ever i have a sincere question about MA somebody always has to make a stupid remark about my question.

If you get that problem a lot, maybe you should think that the problem is with you instead of everyone else.

One thing you could to for a start is to drop the term "O'sensei." Takamatsu was not Irish. The term is not used in standard Japanese. The most famous use of it was in aikido for it's founder after his son started to take over the reigns. The term was used to indicate that they were talking about the senior Ueshiba and not the current Doshu of the art.

No one in the Bujinkan in Japan uses it. When I see it used on the internet it irritates me. If you irritate me through your ignorance, I do not see why I should bother to treat your questions with any great importance.

Think before posting. Then maybe you will not have the problems you are complaining about.