The Heavy Bag

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,230
Reaction score
4,920
Location
San Francisco
I'm curious to know how people approach their training on the heavy bag. What kind of methods do you utilize on the bag? Anything you deliberately stay away from, and if so, why?

I personally don't feel it is necessary to work on a heavy bag more than about 2 times a week. That seems plenty to develop power and condition the hands and feet for striking, without overdoing it. If you are training for some serious full-contact competition, then I think you may want to do more than that, but for most people I suspect this is plenty.

Some things that I do:
First, I tend to focus on basics, on the bag. I take my individual strikes, and work them in their most basic forms. Things like reverse punch, lunge punch, knifehands, tiger claws, ridgehands, elbows, knees, kicks. Each strike by itself, just focusing on getting it right with proper form and developing power for the strike all by itself.

I also work some combinations, but these tend to be sequences taken from my forms, or from my kenpo self defense techniques. It's kind of interesting because the bag swings when struck, so I need to adjust in my follow-up strikes to what the bag is doing. It sort of takes you out of the "ideal" phase, and makes you realize that timing and tempo are important in landing your strikes. Actually landing the strike causes a reaction that you need to compensate for in the follow-ups.

One thing I do not do is spar with the bag. I am not a boxer, I don't train like a boxer, and I don't want to be a boxer. Seems to me that treating the bag like a sparring partner may work well for a boxer, but it is contrary to the techniques and approach utilized in traditional martial arts. I don't think it makes sense to train forms and techniques like I do, that have a very specific approach to self-defense, then throw that all away when I work on the bag. I think the same methodology in practicing forms and techs in the traditional arts should carry over on the heavy bag.

Anyway, I was just sort of thinking about this, thought I'd share some thoughts and see what others think. thanks.
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Hello, One thing for sure! ...hitting the bag release "tension".

Especially after hearing comments...... HUH? ME?

NO pressure here! ......Aloha

PS: gotta work the bag some more......ahhhhhhhh ahhhh Kiai
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
340
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Hello, One thing for sure! ...hitting the bag release "tension".

Especially after hearing comments...... HUH? ME?

NO pressure here! ......Aloha

PS: gotta work the bag some more......ahhhhhhhh ahhhh Kiai


Are you sure you should work the bag since it does not hit back. I mean it cannot be like a real fight hitting a bag cause the bag cannot come at you with fist of fury. Peace.
 

IcemanSK

El Conquistador nim!
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
6,482
Reaction score
181
Location
Los Angeles, CA
When I started in TKD in 1982, I approached the bag only to work on that one big technique for POWER. Years later, I got into boxing & kickboxing. I learned to hit it for round after round wearing bag gloves & shoes.

Now, I work a bag doing both of those things but also for accuracy & control (when I don't have a partner).

It's certainly not the end all, be all for training alone. I've often been shown by trainers that I've gotten bad habits when I hit a heavy bag too much. However, I still see that it has great value.
 

newGuy12

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
1,691
Reaction score
63
Location
In the Doggy Pound!
I do not like to practice on the heavy bag nearly as much as kicking the shield. You know what I'm talking about: kicking shield

Because you can lay into it hard, and it just stays there. Also, the partner can move about.

When I strike the bag it is almost like one would strike a makiwara. I have no makiwara now, but would be inclined to think that it would be a good target as well as a heavy bag.

For some reason, some kicks (like jump spinning side kick), is easier for me to do when I kick a substantial target, the heavy bag. I do not use the heavy bag as a boxer would, because I do not know any boxing techniques.

------------------
hahaha --> still_learning's heavy bag should be just about out of stuffing by now! (Just joking/kidding!)
 

bushidomartialarts

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
2,668
Reaction score
47
Location
Hillsboro, Oregon
My favorite hanging bag drill:

Get in close, cant the bag at a 45 degree angle. Keep it there with a combination of punches, kicks and headbutts for as long as you can.
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Are you sure you should work the bag since it does not hit back. I mean it cannot be like a real fight hitting a bag cause the bag cannot come at you with fist of fury. Peace.

Hello, Good point....bags are some of the tools to practice on....since we cannot get human beings to be "BAGS".

You don't have to fight everyday to learn martial arts ...this will give you the most improvements....but like boxers...there are many other training methods involve.

Lots of Coachs today know that cross training improves the person more than just training for techniques....it is about building a more rounded person physically. (Different excercise's..lots of them, Core training, plyometics, are now being added, beside weight training, so many different ways here too).

Bag work....gives you the chance to hit hard, work the endurance,gain muscles, and so much more.....research this!....

The future will have robotic arms on "BAG"S that will hit back....ONE day it will happen!

Training against real robotic dummies....maybe the Utimate training tool... ..How far is the future? ............Aloha
 

Brian S

Purple Belt
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
383
Reaction score
9
Location
Rogers, AR.
Heavy bag work is essential in my opinion. At least hit something to learn your range. Preferrably it should move to develop your timing as well. It is a good training tool when no one else is available imo.

Not every training regimen is going to be 'alive', nor should it be.

Grappling dummies work too!
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Heavy bag work is essential in my opinion. At least hit something to learn your range. Preferrably it should move to develop your timing as well. It is a good training tool when no one else is available imo.

Not every training regimen is going to be 'alive', nor should it..!

Hello well said here : Not every training regimen is going to be "alive", nor should it!

Good point here! as well as learning the range too! ....Thank-you and Aloha
 

Jimi

Black Belt
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
542
Reaction score
13
Location
Beltsville, MD
I don't agree that the bag just stays there. It depends on how it is suspended. If the bag is hung from a short low chain or rope, like from an average ceiling height it will not swing far. This is great for in-fighting work. Short range kicks, punches, especialy knees & elbows (head-butts) like an opponent is standing his ground so to speak. If the bag is hung from a long chain or rope like from a gymnasium ceiling or upper deck/catwalk, the bag will swing freely making you chase it after every hit it takes. This is great for the long game so to speak, like working a retreating or jack rabbit like opponent. This is also great for cardio, you must go after it. In either case if you just wait at its center, like a pendulum setting still, it will come back to you, quickly if hung short, or a little long if hung high. The bag is what you make of it & the environment you have access to place your bag. The bag is no replacement for another person as a training partner, but it is far from completely dead. Many champions just might agree. I love my Everlast bag & wish I was not renting so putting it up at home is no issue.
Peace Jimi
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Hello, Have you try the bag (usually round ball shape)that has two bunkee like ropes? one end connects to the floor and the other end to the ceiling.

"Boy" this one does hit back! You will learn to be quick or duck or get hit for sure! (haven't use this one for a while).....GREAT training tool! Fun too!

Aloha,
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
340
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Hello, Have you try the bag (usually round ball shape)that has two bunkee like ropes? one end connects to the floor and the other end to the ceiling.

"Boy" this one does hit back! You will learn to be quick or duck or get hit for sure! (haven't use this one for a while).....GREAT training tool! Fun too!

Aloha,


S_L this goes against everything you have posted and no the bag cannot hit back you may get bumped by it, but it is not like getting hit for real.
PEACE
 

meth18au

Blue Belt
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
240
Reaction score
3
Location
Perth
I'm curious to know how people approach their training on the heavy bag. What kind of methods do you utilize on the bag? Anything you deliberately stay away from, and if so, why?



GDay mate. I do utilize the bag in my training routine- definitely no more than twice a week. I don't feel the need to. I basically work individual techniques, or combinations. I even treating it as a dead stuffed opponent sometimes. Another way I use it is timed rounds of short combos, or 100's of knees, or 100's of kicks. I did 400 knees after my warm up in class today, really got my heart going!!!


What do I think I get out of it? Speed, power, timing, rhythm, range. Depending on how I am working it at the time. I probably only spend 15-20 minutes on the bag each session. Once a week at least, sometimes twice.


Nothing beats sparring, grappling and pad work for me. I definitely use these activities as the bulk of my training regime.


Peace

:)
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
3,795
Location
Northern VA
The heavy bag (and similar relatively stationary, solid targets) allow you to practice and develop powerful strikes and kicks. The mass lets you feel the necessary alignment to support the technique. It lets you develop the logistics to move in, deliver the technique, then move out without the fear of being hit. It helps you develop the body mechanics to strike and repeat against resistance. They help to condition your hands, feet, knees, and elbows for combat. And they're great for general conditioning, too!

They aren't the only tool -- but they're an important tool!
 

Brother John

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
2,530
Reaction score
59
Location
Wichita Kansas, USA
For a martial artist that trains in a system that strikes....it's VERY valuable! But like everything, it needs to be kept in proper perspective.

I think it's very good to do about 3 good "Heavy Bag Workouts" per week, even for those (like myself) who don't compete or view their martial art as a 'sport'.

The thing that I have an issue with is that a lot of people want to make heavy bag work all about power. While it is an excellent, maybe even crucial tool in developing the ability to strike with power and good alignment, not every strike in the martial arts is a power stroke! For instance, you can train to have a good backfist strike on a bag, but it's not a powershot....so if you try to force it and make it a powershot, you'll actually ruin the mechanics of the motion.
When working on a bag:
Keep snapping techniques....snapping.
Keep thrusting techniques....thrusting....
etc.

don't just work on power with the bag, work on precision, focus, speed, fluidity. Let me tell you, when you work on multiple strikes in the air that should be fluid, it's easy....but when you have to learn to maintain the alignment and precision of multiple strikes while you're making a depth of contact and working with something that responds to your strikes (like the motion in a bag)....it's a whole different game!

just something to think about.

Your Brother
John
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
3,795
Location
Northern VA
The thing that I have an issue with is that a lot of people want to make heavy bag work all about power. While it is an excellent, maybe even crucial tool in developing the ability to strike with power and good alignment, not every strike in the martial arts is a power stroke! For instance, you can train to have a good backfist strike on a bag, but it's not a powershot....so if you try to force it and make it a powershot, you'll actually ruin the mechanics of the motion.
When working on a bag:
Keep snapping techniques....snapping.
Keep thrusting techniques....thrusting....
etc.

don't just work on power with the bag, work on precision, focus, speed, fluidity. Let me tell you, when you work on multiple strikes in the air that should be fluid, it's easy....but when you have to learn to maintain the alignment and precision of multiple strikes while you're making a depth of contact and working with something that responds to your strikes (like the motion in a bag)....it's a whole different game!

just something to think about.

Your Brother
John

I think we're going to end up talking about something similar, but I don't agree with the way you've phrased this -- especially the underlined part.

There are kill shots or "major power shots", and there are stun shots or "lesser power shots", and there are feints and other no power shots. We'll disregard those for the nonce... Each strike has its own sort of power, and you should experience hitting a solid target with each. Some shots will look really powerful on the bag, making a loud noise and moving the bag a lot, some very powerful, deeply penetrating strikes barely move the bag and just make it sort of fold around the fist or foot. A stun shot shouldn't hit the bag the same way as a kill shot -- but both should have power, and the bag lets you feel the dynamics of actually hitting something with that stun to set up the kill, and then delivering the kill shot.

The key is that each strike must be done with the proper force and alignment for that strike -- not each strike done the same way, with the same force and power.
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Hello, When people say "bags don't hit back? " ....it is a different meaning when the bags hit you.

some may disagree here? ...cause one is a "saying"...while the other is actual hit from the bag moving.

We use to hang one bag and not strap the bottom...when you move this bag and it flies away and comes back...it can and will "hit" you...NOT like when someone is punching or kicking back. "hence bags don't hit back"

So we know tying the bottom from flying away is good too, Both ways makes for good practice.

We also have the water fill bottom one too on wheels....this is a total different way to train on the bag because you can move it. (try this one? ..it gives you a different kind of work out!)

"BoB" seems more realistic? .....anyone seen "Bob"?

Aloha ....BoB? ...you are invited to stay with us in Hawaii? ...the kids heard about you?
 

Latest Discussions

Top