The future of the TKD section

shesulsa

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Ladies and gentlemen,

Due to various and sundry disputes on rank, authenticity, experience and source we continue to see thread after thread after thread in this section of MartialTalk.com get shut down. The sole reason for this is the refusal of some posters to abide by the rules of the forum.

If this continues, we could lose this part of the board.

I beseech each of you who post here to take into account the usage of The Great Debate for the sort of disputes and examinations referenced above.

I challenge you to read the posting rules of the entire forum - after all, with your click-through agreement you have effectively signed a contract of conduct that is binding.

I encourage you to find ways to have discourse that don't involved comparisons that grate on the ability to gain from and contribute to this unique community.

Take a moment ... and the opportunity to grow.

Surely there is more to talk about in KMA and TKD than what has been.

Sincerely,

Georgia Ketchmark
 

Dirty Dog

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And who stands to gain from that? MT, Taekwondoin or the folks who relentlessly bash them?

I don't think anybody really gains anything. Personally, I would really hate to see the KMA section shut down.

But considering how much the mods aren't paid, I can understand why shutting down a troublesome section would have a certain appeal.

Better yet, we could all act like adults and stop the sniping. I've been guilty of the occasional pot shot myself. That ends.

As Georgia said, heated subjects can and should be kept in The Great Debate, or even PMs.



Sent from my iPhone using TapaTalk.
 

Twin Fist

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i aint posted in here in months, dont look at me...lol i dont know what has been happening but i am sure i can guess.
 

chrispillertkd

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Ladies and gentlemen,

Due to various and sundry disputes on rank, authenticity, experience and source we continue to see thread after thread after thread in this section of MartialTalk.com get shut down. The sole reason for this is the refusal of some posters to abide by the rules of the forum.

If this continues, we could lose this part of the board.

While I certainly sympathize with the moderators for doing a thankless job if the Taekwon-Do section is shut down because of a group of posters who refuse to abide by MT's rules then the problem is with the moderators, not anyone else. If they refuse to enforce their own rules then you can't blame people who come here and post in an obnoxious, beligerent, disrespectful, or whatever manner. They've seen other people get away with it so why not them? Yes, you'd think adults could be responsible enough to post in an appropriate manner in a public forum but you'd be wrong (this is the internet, after all ;) ).

We've all heard mods say that they try to give people the benefit of the doubt and not apply the rules too stringently. How's that working out?

I challenge you to read the posting rules of the entire forum - after all, with your click-through agreement you have effectively signed a contract of conduct that is binding.

I have done this. More than once, in fact.

Edit: I just want to make clear, that I'd love for the TKD section to remain open but obviously there are people here who can't take a hint. If Bob wants to shut down the section instead of dealing with problem individuals then that's his perrogative. In any event there's obviously a better way to deal with any problems than that.

Pax,

Chris
 
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Kong Soo Do

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Something I need to say here folks...

The recent thread, the one about getting HKD rank after a weekend seminar that was just closed...why was it closed? The member with the screen name 'd1jinx' made several false accusations in that thread. I called him out on those false statements. I wake up this morning and the thread is closed!?! Are we know not allowed to state that a member made false statements and request he either support them or retract them...or admit he lied on a public forum. Is that against the rules now?

I'd like the TKD section to be a happy-joy joy place just like most everyone else. But I'm not going to sit by and allow d1jinx to make false statements about me and my instructor on a public board and not challenge it. He made the statements...he needs to back them up or admit he made them up.

Which is it going to be?
 

Bob Hubbard

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I wasn't going to post this. I slept on it it fact. But I'll post it.

The majority of our members are great people. You've made this a successful site, left the politics and baggage elsewhere and used this as a community for fellowship and research and relaxation. To all of you, I thank you.

Then we get to the children.
We're tired of the constant sniping, the digs, the knit picking, the bull ****.
We're tired of you whining like little babies, little colecy babies, in need of a good burp, so that your spit up can be wiped up by us, your bottoms powdered, and your dipper changed.
The 'irony' is that most of the babies have never ever contributed a single cent to the upkeep of this site. Never will.
When you give them a wrist slap, they get sneaky. Get more obscure. Then cry "I didnt do nuthin" when you give them a wrist slap.

We've got more mountains in here than the Alps, all of which were mole hills when they started.

Seriously folks. We are sick and tired of the crap.
Grow the **** up already. Grow a thicker skin. It's not all about you. You're not always right.

We don't want to be rules lawyers, knitpicking through things, but damn it that's what a few people with thin skins are demanding we do.
Except where they are concerned, because of course they are always innocent of any wrong doing.

Enough is enough.

If you want this section to continue, you'll police each other, you'll police yourselves.

Because right now, to save this section, we may cut out a few cancers, and sadly that always takes good with it.

We've got a dozen reports so far this week that we're looking at going 'huh?' at. We're locking threads faster than they start it seems.

You want us to enforce the rules to -your- level of demand? Fine. Zero tolerance. If you report something and we find it's BS complaint, you'll get points. You burp and don't say excuse me, points. Is that what you want? Then maybe a few more people should pony up some memberships so I can pay a mod to be a babysitter here. That enforcement goes both ways, we won't just enforce on the guys you have issues with, so before demanding a hardline, realize you're going to get hit too. (Not might, but will) You don't want us to act like Judge Dredd.

You're supposed to be adults. Act like Adults. Act like the responsible members of society you're supposed to be. If you're an instructor, then double shame on you for your actions that have brought us to this point.

You want this section to remain open, then make it a solid positive resource for your community. Enough with the bickering, and ********.

Or is that all you got to offer?

Balls in your court folks. The other 99% of the community that hasn't caused a bit of headache is counting on you to get it right this time.
 

miguksaram

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Something I need to say here folks...

The recent thread, the one about getting HKD rank after a weekend seminar that was just closed...why was it closed? The member with the screen name 'd1jinx' made several false accusations in that thread. I called him out on those false statements. I wake up this morning and the thread is closed!?! Are we know not allowed to state that a member made false statements and request he either support them or retract them...or admit he lied on a public forum. Is that against the rules now?

I'd like the TKD section to be a happy-joy joy place just like most everyone else. But I'm not going to sit by and allow d1jinx to make false statements about me and my instructor on a public board and not challenge it. He made the statements...he needs to back them up or admit he made them up.

Which is it going to be?
What Shesulsa is saying is general and covers everything and everybody in this section. Do not point fingers and say it is one man's fault because you are just as guilty for causing as much crap as the rest. Hell, I know I am guilty, if not one of the lead offenders. Perhaps dijinx made a bad assumption, but I do not believe he was trying to make anything up out of the blue. Did Mst. Dunn study under GM Won? Yes, did he receive rank from GM Won? Yes. Was it TKD rank? Yes. Could it have been possible for him to receive HKD rank GM Won? Yes. That would be an assumption however, you have since said was not true. So fine...it is not true and d1jinx made a mistake. So let it die already and move on.

The section is about Taekwondo/Taekwon-do/Tae Kwon Do and all aspects of of it, not just one or two areas of it. There are many people who post on here that have great knowledge in different areas from coaching, to competing, to self-defense, to history, to training. If others can take the blinders off for even one moment they would see there is a lot more to TKD than just their small little world or what they choose to hone in on perhaps we wouldn't have so many threads closed. Though I do like the idea printed on another thread that they just automatically get locked up after 2 days.

If people are going to post and make judgement calls on another person or school, then they should be prepared to put themselves out there for scrutiny. Do not tell me my water is dirty and not show me what your water looks like.
 

Gorilla

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In 3 years I have never reported a thread. The Mods have always been fair with me and I dont expect that to change.
 

Kong Soo Do

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Bob that all sounds real good...but...

If this is going to be a great section to come to, then people need to realize that not everyone is going to subscribe to the same exact thing on every single point. That people are going to post from their experience, inexperience, point-of-view or what they've been taught. People need to realize that this is what contributes to the section. If you don't agree, then simply say, "I don't agree"...and move on. Going back and forth, page after page because people don't like what you've said or aren't reading fully what you said has gotten old. If something isn't clear...how about asking for a clarification. And if you still don't agree..so what!!! No one is forced to agree with another here. But maybe...just maybe a certain view will make you think about things differently. That's growth!

However, and I'm not going to let this go right now, if someone is going to post something about another member or their instructor or whatever...they need to back it up. One of the biggest problems in this section is that people don't agree with someone else's opinion and then go on the nit-picky warpath with snide remarks. And worse, they make up crap to 'get them'. I'll say it again, if you post something about another member....back it up. If you can't back it up then don't post it. If you posted something 'intentionally falsified' i.e. you lied through your teeth about someone to make them look bad...then guess what...you've just trolled.

I'm all for in-depth, informative discussions. But when it gets to the point that someone is going to claim my instructor got his rank at a weekend seminar...you'd better be ready to pony up the proof. You want to cut out some cancer...start with people that have 'intentionally falsified' i.e. lied about another members credentials or the credentials of their instructors because they don't agree with them on some topic. Then see if the section returns to friendly.
 

terryl965

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All I know is this the TKD section is always one of the top sections of MT and has been for a alot of years. I enjoy this section but not all the B.S. that comes from a few people who seems to think they are always right. Bob and the Mods do a great job here even when I was a mod this section had problems. I ask that each of us remember the tenets of our art and sport so this section can continue and stop complaining about so and so. Act like an adult and take your medicine so we can debate and try to find out where each and everyone of us are coming from.
 

Gorilla

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All I know is this the TKD section is always one of the top sections of MT and has been for a alot of years. I enjoy this section but not all the B.S. that comes from a few people who seems to think they are always right. Bob and the Mods do a great job here even when I was a mod this section had problems. I ask that each of us remember the tenets of our art and sport so this section can continue and stop complaining about so and so. Act like an adult and take your medicine so we can debate and try to find out where each and everyone of us are coming from.

Exactly!
 

Kong Soo Do

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What Shesulsa is saying is general and covers everything and everybody in this section. Do not point fingers and say it is one man's fault because you are just as guilty for causing as much crap as the rest. Hell, I know I am guilty, if not one of the lead offenders. Perhaps dijinx made a bad assumption, but I do not believe he was trying to make anything up out of the blue. Did Mst. Dunn study under GM Won? Yes, did he receive rank from GM Won? Yes. Was it TKD rank? Yes. Could it have been possible for him to receive HKD rank GM Won? Yes. That would be an assumption however, you have since said was not true. So fine...it is not true and d1jinx made a mistake. So let it die already and move on.

With all due respect Jeremy, don't cover for him. And yes, you are one of the biggest offenders. d1jinx didn't make a 'bad assumption'. He lied. He lied because he didn't like my viewpoint in a couple of threads. Last time I checked, people here were allowed to have their own viewpoint. Last time I checked it was allowed to express that opinion. He hasn't manned up and apologized. Make a public accusation then make a public apology.

One of the first guidelines of TKD is 'courtesy to all'. How are you doing on that Jeremy? Yeah...I could improve that as well..but it sure would be a lot easier if I didn't have the same 3-4 members pulling the same crap every time I turn around and post MY FRIGGIN OPINION! You don't agree...say, "I don't agree" and move on. You don't have to agree. But how about acting like a martial artist, y'know...all that respect and courtesy stuff. In other words, practice what you preach. I don't agree with you on many things but I'm all for some mutual respect. But mutual respect is a two-way road.
 

SahBumNimRush

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I would simply like to point out that while this "problem" is going on here, I'm still having a GREAT discussion on the KMA/TKD threads as we speak. That is all. Oh, and welcome back Twin Fist.
 

dancingalone

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I would simply like to point out that while this "problem" is going on here, I'm still having a GREAT discussion on the KMA/TKD threads as we speak. That is all. Oh, and welcome back Twin Fist.

+1. I'm disappointed by some of the recent acrimony but to be honest even the "Facts and Lies" thread had some interesting discussion on it. It's hard to change your mind on something or to learn something entirely different from your prior experience without someone willing to play the role of teacher. And occasionally a teacher must be an antagonist to be effective.
 

Kong Soo Do

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+1. I'm disappointed by some of the recent acrimony but to be honest even the "Facts and Lies" thread had some interesting discussion on it. It's hard to change your mind on something or to learn something entirely different from your prior experience without someone willing to play the role of teacher. And occasionally a teacher must be an antagonist to be effective.

Well said.

The problem that I see in that thread is some folks disagree with alternate interpretations for movements in forms. And that is fine. Let me say it again so that it is REALLY clear...it is FINE! They don't have to agree.

But

We have in that thread credentials being attacked, 'you don't know what you're talking about' or 'you clearly are inexperienced' or 'your not really TKD...go away you're not allowed to be here'. That isn't constructive. And what I'm finding out is that it is coming from members who haven't really put in any time or effort training or researching into alternative applications. And hey, that's okay. If someone isn't interested in alternative applications then they don't have to put in the time/effort. But they then, shouldn't turn around and negatively comment on those that have put in the time/effort/research/training/teaching.
 

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