the first couple videos from my test

[clfsean]

clfsean,
Part of my test was a "specialty" demonstration. For my 2nd test, my specialty was Kenpo self Defense. For this test, since I am a school owner, my specialty these days is teaching, and there is no better way to judge a teacher than by looking at his students

Ok cool... not busting balls, just getting my head around things is all, but if you tested for & received TKD rank (congrats BTW), why Kenpo (so not-TKD) for the self defense? Why not TKD for the self defense?

 

[Twin Fist]

two reasons for Kenpo self defense on my 2nd Dan test
1- I had already done a bull in the ring self defense vs 4 attackers doing random attacks, unrehearsed

2- the whole point of the specialty is that it is something BEYOND what we are taught in class. Underbelts dont have that requirement, but BB's do, because my teacher wants us to go past what she teaches us.

I did Kenpo self defense because A) it wasnt TKD and B)as a Kenpo BB, i already knew it, and it really impresses the TKD people when you show them how different Kenpo is from TKD.

it makes sense when you think about it.

 

[clfsean]

two reasons for Kenpo self defense on my 2nd Dan test
1- I had already done a bull in the ring self defense vs 4 attackers doing random attacks, unrehearsed

Cool...

2- the whole point of the specialty is that it is something BEYOND what we are taught in class. Underbelts dont have that requirement, but BB's do, because my teacher wants us to go past what she teaches us.

So you're expected at BB to go outside the school? Cool...

I did Kenpo self defense because A) it wasnt TKD and B)as a Kenpo BB, i already knew it, and it really impresses the TKD people when you show them how different Kenpo is from TKD.

Well, you definately gave them that. Kenpo != TKD ...

it makes sense when you think about it.

Eh not so much to me, but I've never claimed to be the smart bulb in the bunch either.

But, none the less, good on you for passing & moving forward!

 

[Twin Fist]

well, different people do different things for thier specialties. This last weekend, one guy did breaking, one guy did musical kata. On my 2nd dan test, one of the testers had been studying judo, and demonstrated that.

Like I said, the whole idea is to show that you have grown beyond what you were taught.

it works.

 

[Earl Weiss]

>>>The turns are performed as they are taught in the book by Hee Il Cho. Those books were published in the early 80's, if people are not performing it that way now, maybe THEY are the ones doing it wrong.....<<<


The vids I showed were from 3 totaly unrelated groups. Many more out there. None perform the pattern as you did . Further, as you performed it you do not follow the patttern diagram. That leaves 4 possibilities.
1. Typo in He Il Cho's book
2. The book is not clear which led to your misinterpretation.
3. He Il Cho has it wrong.
4. Everyone except He Il Cho is wrong.

In any event I will check the 1965 Book and 1972 book to see if there is an easy way to see why their is a misinterpretation.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Please list how moves 7&8, and 21&22 are described in He Il Cho's book. That is where things differ in your performance.

 

[Twin Fist]

i was confused by this as well. I even created a thread on the topic of sae jong, and the fact that the book that has always been right didnt match the way every single video i had seen....

look for the thread titled "friggin sae jong"

All I know is, thats the way GM William Shelton, 8th Dan wanted it. Thats good enough for me, as we are not WTF, ITF, or any other *TF.

 

[Twin Fist]

from the complete tae kwon do hyung, by Hee Il Cho, vol 2, pg 195

Sae Jong, move 8. Rotate 180 degrees clockwise

 

[Twin Fist]

next video, this one of my students again. They are doing a set that I created to teach the first two kicks in the system, the front kick and the back kick. I created this set to teach not just the kicks, but BALANCE. Thats why the set is performed with the feet together.

 

[Earl Weiss]

i was confused by this as well. I even created a thread on the topic of sae jong, and the fact that the book that has always been right didnt match the way every single video i had seen....

look for the thread titled "friggin sae jong"

All I know is, thats the way GM William Shelton, 8th Dan wanted it. Thats good enough for me, as we are not WTF, ITF, or any other *TF.

Well, Gneral Choi's books had and have errors so it is certainly possible He Il Cho's book does as well. For some errors there wer technical correction bulletins issued . For others he simply pointed them out when asked at courses. Maybe someone should contact He Il Cho

 

[Earl Weiss]

from the complete tae kwon do hyung, by Hee Il Cho, vol 2, pg 195

Sae Jong, move 8. Rotate 180 degrees clockwise

Does the "Complete" book still list only 20 of the 24 patterns? Not exactly confidence inspiring if it does.

 

[elder999]

. Maybe someone should contact He Il Cho

Maybe someone should let it go. :lfao:

 

[Earl Weiss]

i was confused by this as well. I even created a thread on the topic of sae jong, and the fact that the book that has always been right didnt match the way every single video i had seen....

look for the thread titled "friggin sae jong"

All I know is, thats the way GM William Shelton, 8th Dan wanted it. Thats good enough for me, as we are not WTF, ITF, or any other *TF.

GM William Shelton Student of GM Larry Wheeler who got his BB in 1971 from the Allen Steen Chung Do Kwan system definitley explains the rising outer forearm block chambering underneath and the angle motion of the twin outer forearm block. Does not explain the unique rendition of Se Jong.

If I were you I would respectfully ask for more research from the technical directors.

 

[Twin Fist]

i'll be sure and do that

 

[Tez3]

GM William Shelton Student of GM Larry Wheeler who got his BB in 1971 from the Allen Steen Chung Do Kwan system definitley explains the rising outer forearm block chambering underneath and the angle motion of the twin outer forearm block. Does not explain the unique rendition of Se Jong.

If I were you I would respectfully ask for more research from the technical directors.

If I were you I'd respectfully refrain from posting anymore on this thread but then I happen to not to have the gene that means I have to demean others efforts...in this case, very good efforts. As for only 20 (shock, horror), well pal, quality over quantity everytime.

Does a block work? yes? then it's a damn fine block. :ultracool

 

[Twin Fist]

Bull in the ring self defense.

 

[Tames D]

TF, When will you know the results of your EARL test?

 

[Twin Fist]

I know I am gonna regret this, but whats an EARL test?

 

[Earl Weiss]

If I were you I'd respectfully refrain from posting anymore on this thread but then I happen to not to have the gene that means I have to demean others efforts...in this case, very good efforts. As for only 20 (shock, horror), well pal, quality over quantity everytime.

Does a block work? yes? then it's a damn fine block. :ultracool

A couple of points. #1. Twin fist had a thread with regard to his frustration about the pattern. It is now clear why he was so frustrated. He followed what all good students should follow, the stipulated parameters. If there is an error in the parmaeter, do you think it improper to find out? (It does not demean his efforts, it does question the standard he was following). #2. Would you consider it an authoritative text about the complete book of the alphabet, all 22 letters? #3. wuld you rather find out you were making an error, even if based on faulty information or would you prefer to commit the error forever and teach it to your students.

I for one think it imortant, for teachers, particularly to be clear in what they are doing. If I make a mistake, as a student, it results in one individual making a mistake. If I make a mistake as an instructor, it can be compounded multiple times.

I have asked General Choi about what I was percieved to be an error in his book, and he was glad to have it brought to his attention. Others did the same. I am glad when my students ask me about what they percieve to be errors. Sometimes it is merely a miscommunication and sometimes Iscrew up.

In this case the pattern has a diagram. 3 Horizontal lines bisected by a vertical line. The moves should follow the pattern diagram lines (more or less) in the verson reportedly contained in He Il Cho's book, the entire top line is missing.

I have tried to find AIMAA pattern video or text on line and was not successful.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Bull in the ring self defense.

Love it. I do the defense from the rear bear hug virtually the same way. These are your students attacking you? They look like they know what their doing -- strong committed attacks, ready to take the lumps.

Thanks for sharing!