The Arts i plan on mastering / What is Mastering really mean?

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
I am learning esrima once a week for a hour or so at my gym.
A guy by the name of (BLANK) -I didnt get his permission to put his name online so sorry. But he has trained in 4 styles of escrima and had his own TKD/ESRIMA school for years. He stopped his school went into body building now he shares his skills with me once a week. He learned from a man that learned right from the GM of Escrima he has been doing it for over 20 years and is really good he wants to spawnsor the GM to are school from somewhere in the MW america i think. Like i said befor i am a newbie at Escrima but i pick stuff up pritty fast.
I forgot to get all the details about what styles he knows etc but i will for you if you want.

There is no need to use his name, or the styles he knows. But everyone including him knows he did not master the art but from the way you describe him, is pretty good at it.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
But he has trained in 4 styles of escrima and had his own TKD/ESRIMA school for years.

What four styles? If he had his own school, it is entirely possible that he may well be known by someone on this board (given the large population of FMAists on Martial Talk).

And as a side note, the number of styles a person lays claim to knowing is not necessarily a mark of a good martial artist nor a good teacher. In fact, and I think this was hinted at earlier in this thread, large numbers of arts studied is often a hallmark of someone that spent nowhere near enough time in any single one of them... It is nearly impossible, in a respectable traditional school, to obtain grading beyond 1st degree black belt in multiple styles. Teachers making claims of "grandmaster-ship," "soke" titles, or simply high ranking black belts in numerous arts, are often very possibly people with either "honorary" grading or knew someone who "cooperated" with said instructor and traded black belt grading for black belt grading.

Anyway.

He learned from a man that learned right from the GM of Escrima he has been doing it for over 20 years and is really good he wants to spawnsor the GM to are school from somewhere in the MW america i think.

With the huge number of FMA styles, saying he learned from an Escrima "grandmaster," or from a guy that trained with an Escrima "grandmaster" means little... What Escrima style is important...

Like i said befor i am a newbie at Escrima but i pick stuff up pritty fast.

FMA are learned quickly... The environment they were created in demanded skills that could be developed and used in a short period of time. Don't confuse speed of teaching with speed of learning (though I am not saying you do not learn quickly regardless of the art being learned).

I forgot to get all the details about what styles he knows etc but i will for you if you want.

I think that is what Bart has been asking for...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Judo,
Theres a large number of 'styles' of FMA out there, I believe I've counted over 30 varrients of Escrima myself. Can you mention the styles themselves, and/or the GM in question? It might help folks understand the lineage.

I know there was a 'thing' on the Modern Arnis forum a short bit back over which Presas brothers 'Modern Arnis' was the 'real one'. (I'm summarizing...)

:asian:

 

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
This thread is to see what arts people want to learn and plan on mastering, For me it is.....

Judo
Jujutsu
Escrima
Boxing
MTkickboxing
Wrestling Freestyle/submission
Sambo
PLUS various Moves from other arts.

This is what i use to fight with i am working hard to learn as much as i can from each, Plus other stuff from other arts, I can give you a good reason to why i am choosing to use each of these arts.

For myself I want to master Ryukyu Kempo and gain dan rankings in Judo and possibly American Kenpo and also gain instructor certification in Close Quarter Combat under either the SFCA or Tank Todd and the Todd Systems of Close Combat.

I'll see how I go
Cheers
Sammy

 

[Kiz Bell]

OK then, these are the arts I'd master if I could:-

Seitei-gata Iaido
Muso Jikeden Eishen-ryu Iaijutsu
Seitei-gata Jodo
Shinden-Muso Ryu Jodo

As to the whole debate about planning to master an art, I really can't see anything wrong with that ambition. He/she may not actually get there, but they will be all the better for trying. As they say, if you aim for the stars you might hit the moon. If you only aim for the treetops, you will never get any higher than the treetops.

 

[Chronuss]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
I am learning esrima once a week for a hour or so at my gym.

at the studio I attend, we are fortunate enough to have a Pentjak(sp anyone PLEASE?) Silat practitioner with an escrima background, and he teaches once a week, usually on fridays. now...once a week IS NOT ENOUGH to do the MASTERING that you say you wish to do; no possible way in hell. you may see and memorize...but that's no way to master.

He learned from a man that learned right from the GM of Escrima...

Who's the GM?
Who's the name of the guy from whom you learn?

 

[bart]

I am learning esrima once a week for a hour or so at my gym.

First things first: You will not master Eskrima by training once a week for an hour or so. You'll have to train more and you'll need more than just one person to partner with.

guy who gos to my gym knows 4 styles of escrima...
But he has trained in 4 styles of escrima...
I forgot to get all the details about what styles he knows etc but i will for you if you want...

Next, it really is important to know the styles. Different styles require different things to be a master. Some styles say you have to be at least 50. Other styles require that you have a certain set of skills and have exercised them. Other styles require participation in competition.

Knowing the style is very important. Yes, I want you to find out. You should find out and know for your own sake so that when you "master" the styles you'll know what you're a "master" of.

He learned from a man that learned right from the GM of Escrima he has been doing it for over 20 years

Next, there is no one grandmaster of all Eskrima. Some styles even have more than one grandmaster. Four different styles implies training under at least a few different people, although it's very likely that this guy's teacher has studied more than one style, it's not equally likely that they were mastered. Even so, I wouldn't be surprised if your Eskrimador may be very skilled or even a master. I think it behooves you to check this out too.

but i have a master of Escrima that gos to my judo school

Also in the FMA at least, if somebody hangs the shingle out then they shouldn't be afraid to have their name out in the community, especially if they refer to themselves as a master. I would like to know his name, but I don't have a need to know his name. I'll leave that up to you to disclose. However, I do want to know:

Who your Eskrimador learned from?
Who is "the GM of Escrima" that your Eskrimador is referring too? This would be the guy who taught your teacher.

And again you should want to know this stuff too as someone who is trying to "master" and art. This is a hole in credibility. Many teachers would be offended if their students didn't want to
mention them and give them credit. Not proclaiming your lineage is suspect. Also, in the FMA at least it's generally frowned upon to not know what it is that you're learning. You may be a newbie, but you should at least know the name of the style, or styles in your case, that you study.

Like i said befor i am a newbie at Escrima but i pick stuff up pritty fast.

Basic Eskrima is initially learned very quickly, but all of the advanced skills and subtleties like most other arts take time and practice to learn. Some eskrima skills require development of muscles that are normally unused or weak. Deep callousing is also necessary to do some of the drills that build skills. There should also be more involved than stickfighting, like some empty
hands or stick and dagger. That takes practice, much more practice than can fit in one hour a week if you're looking to master it.

posted by martialartist
I don't think judo-kid lied about anything.

Now maybe lying was too strong a word. How about exaggerating? Although still dishonest, it does contain some modicum of truth. I think that maybe is more accurate a description of what I'm feeling about JK's statement. He may of course have been mislead by this Eskrima Master.

We'll have to see from his answers...

Also only reason i didnt post about this sooner is because i forgot.

...if he doesn't forget

 

[J-kid]

Ok first off, I never said i would master any art in one day. This is like a starting up course for me. Also i didnt get a chance to ask him to put his name on the internet another thing i forgot to ask about the style as well. I will try to make note of it next time i see him. Also he never called himself a master but i consider him to be one for how long he has done it and how good he is.

 

[bart]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm looking forward to your answers.

 

[KennethKu]

This is not referring to Eskrima in particular. I just don't recall any real "Master" being particular about being recognized as such. It always seems like the empty bucket makes the most noise about being addressed in title and rank. Then again, that could be simply b/c I don't get out much.

 

[bart]

Also he never called himself a master but i consider him to be one for how long he has done it and how good he is.

One more thing...

And again Escrima is diffrent then all of them though but i have a master of Escrima that gos to my judo school and we have clinics for stick fighting clinics,

as in this quote, you used this Eskrima master as a point to bolster your arguments. But it wasn't 100 percent true that he was a master. So by doing this you misrepresent yourself in an effort to seem more knowledgeable.

I'm glad that you finally clarified this a little bit. Again I look forward to your answers.

 

[fissure]

First, I must say I have zero experience in Escima or any other weapon training. For no particular reason weapon type arts have never interested me.
My question is for the thread starter, Judo-Kid. From reading your numerous posts throughout this board, it has been my understanding that your goal was to become a "great" fighter and win in UFC type competition (and possibly the hotly contested "tuff guy on the block" events). If this is so why train in Escrima at all? This is obviously not going to help you in the afore mentioned endeavors, as I don't think they allow participants to whack each other with sticks (well maybe in the neighborhood championship thing its O.K.).
It seems to me that most weapon arts will probably never be used in real life. Not many people walk around with a Katana through their belt loop or a pair of sticks in their pockets. As you have stated, your only interested in tech. for UFC type fighting. Stick fighting obviously doesn't fit this mold. If your not careful, someone may accuse you of trying to learn an ART.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fissure
First, I must say I have zero experience in Escima or any other weapon training. For no particular reason weapon type arts have never interested me.
My question is for the thread starter, Judo-Kid. From reading your numerous posts throughout this board, it has been my understanding that your goal was to become a "great" fighter and win in UFC type competition (and possibly the hotly contested "tuff guy on the block" events). If this is so why train in Escrima at all? This is obviously not going to help you in the afore mentioned endeavors, as I don't think they allow participants to whack each other with sticks (well maybe in the neighborhood championship thing its O.K.).
It seems to me that most weapon arts will probably never be used in real life. Not many people walk around with a Katana through their belt loop or a pair of sticks in their pockets. As you have stated, your only interested in tech. for UFC type fighting. Stick fighting obviously doesn't fit this mold. If your not careful, someone may accuse you of trying to learn an ART.

Could a pool cue not be used instead of the specific weapon?
What about a broom stick, mop handle, umbrella, or cane? Do
you feel these couldn't possibly used in real life?

Escrima is not solely a stick or weapons art. They have empty
handed techniques as well.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
Escrima is not solely a stick or weapons art. They have empty
handed techniques as well.

It depends what style of eskrima you mean; there are certainly eskrima systems that are stick-only (e.g. Balintawak) or at least weapons-only. Typically an eskrima system does have empty-hand techniques as well, as you mention, at least as they're usually taught here in the U.S.

 

[Astra]

Fissure: Do not limit yourself to only thinking narrow-mindedly. Give an Escrima practitioner a newspaper and he'll gladly use it as a weapon. You can use nearly everything as a weapon (not neccesarily Jackie Chan style, hehe)

From experience, I can say a newspaper is actually a pretty good weapon

 

[fissure]

Kirk,if only you had read my entire post!

it has been my understanding that your goal was to become a "great" fighter and win in UFC type competition

- the "your" being Judo-Kid.

In reply to your question, no. Broom sticks and such are not often use inside of the UFC ring.
My point is to Judo-Kid alone (as I stated at the beginning of my post) and is meant to underscore the possibility of one practicing an art for reasons other than simple combat.
I fully understand the use of "at hand weapons" in real life. Unfortunately this concept has nothing to do with my question to Judo-Kid. Thank you for missing the point entirely.

 

[J-kid]

Its always helpful for some weapons training also there trapping technics arnt bad ether.

 

[fissure]

Astra - see my last post.

Judo-Kid, have your goals changed? Is becoming a UFC champ. no longer your intent?
If so then I agree, weapon training could be helpfull. If not then how is does weapon practice help your UFC goal?
I'll state my point again as several seem to have missed it. It seems to me that you (Judo-Kid) are practicing an art that doesn't fit your stated game plan of becoming UFC Champ.In doing so you have unwittingly shone interest in a Martial Art, rather than simple fighting techniques.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fissure
Kirk,if only you had read my entire post!

- the "your" being Judo-Kid.

In reply to your question, no. Broom sticks and such are not often use inside of the UFC ring.

Lets look at what you said again, shall we?

Originally posted by fissure
It seems to me that most weapon arts will probably never be used in real life. Not many people walk around with a Katana through their belt loop or a pair of sticks in their pockets.

I wasn't aware that they had belt loops and pockets in their
typical clothing in the UFC. Since you're implying that UFC fighting
is the only thing you were talking about. Excuse the hell out of
me for "missing your entire point" here, but for some reason, be
it lack of grammar skills or misrepresenting yourself that you
meant the UFC, you didn't imply, infer or directly refer to the
UFC in this statement. I think the biggest thing was when you
stated "real life" instead of "UFC".

Originally posted by fissure
Thank you for missing the point entirely.

Thank you for making it so terribly.

 

[fissure]

If you like we can both keep posting snippets of my original post. Alternatively you or anyone else can read in its entirety. I think when read as a whole it is clear that I am speaking to Judo-Kid alone in regard to his previously stated goals of UFC fame.
As to my being unclear on what I was talking about, please reread my last 3 sentances of the oringinal post. I agree that I should have used UFC instead of "real life", but again I think the overall post (and to whom it is made) makes my intent clear.

I saw a golden opportunity to try and point out the difference between fighting and Martial Arts to Judo-Kid. This was, and is, my purpose of posting so late in this thread. I was irritated when the focus was drawn away from this idea toward another "you don't know what my/our/their art is about" issue.

I wasn't aware that I had a lack of grammatical skills. At least I assume thats what you meant by "grammer skills".