Teaching Challengers

Anarax

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I've only witnessed one person come into my Dojo and challenge one of the instructors. Long story short, the instructor easily handled him(after he signed the release) and knocked the wind out of him. He signed up for classes afterwards and trained for a few months.

My question is after beating them, would you agree to teach someone who walked in off the streets and challenged you? Do you see such behavior as a reflection of their character or a red flag? Why or why not?
 

dvcochran

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I've only witnessed one person come into my Dojo and challenge one of the instructors. Long story short, the instructor easily handled him(after he signed the release) and knocked the wind out of him. He signed up for classes afterwards and trained for a few months.

My question is after beating them, would you agree to teach someone who walked in off the streets and challenged you? Do you see such behavior as a reflection of their character or a red flag? Why or why not?
Yes, I would definitely teach them. Of course it was a red flag but in the example you described, it must have been a reach out for help or at least humbling. I cannot imagine trying to cherry pick students in a traditional MA setting.
 

Martial D

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I've only witnessed one person come into my Dojo and challenge one of the instructors. Long story short, the instructor easily handled him(after he signed the release) and knocked the wind out of him. He signed up for classes afterwards and trained for a few months.

My question is after beating them, would you agree to teach someone who walked in off the streets and challenged you? Do you see such behavior as a reflection of their character or a red flag? Why or why not?
I absolutely would, but my martial arts revolve around the ability to fight to the exclusion of all else.

I understand that someone might need to 'feel' it work before making a life commitment on the scale of serious ma training.
 

Flying Crane

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I guess I doubt that I would have even allowed the challenge to be answered. I would have turned on the video on my phone to document his behavior, and told him to leave immediately. If he refused or attempted to force an altercation, I would call the police and have him removed.

I dont see any value in issueing such challenges, nor in answering them. People think violence is a game. It isnt.
 

JR 137

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I guess I doubt that I would have even allowed the challenge to be answered. I would have turned on the video on my phone to document his behavior, and told him to leave immediately. If he refused or attempted to force an altercation, I would call the police and have him removed.

I dont see any value in issueing such challenges, nor in answering them. People think violence is a game. It isnt.
Yeah, theres no point to it anymore. The dojo owner has nothing to gain and everything to lose. Forget pride or my skills are proven better by winning. With the way lawsuits go, theres no point. You only need one moron to walk out with a 3rd degree pride sprain and decide to sue.

My CI has told me about several challenges he and mostly his teacher (Tadashi Nakamura) faced. But that was back in the 70s-mid 80s. Nakamura got the nickname knock em out Nakamura back then from the challenges. Ive heard that nickname in several different places, none of which were my teacher, Nakamuras students, nor Nakamura himself.
 

FriedRice

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People think violence is a game. It isnt.

Aren't you simulating real violence by teaching and training to injure, incapacitate....to even kill the other guy....albeit, it's mostly pretending to = sounds very much like a game.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Do you see such behavior as a reflection of their character or a red flag? Why or why not?
Red flag? I'll call that honest behavior.

When I was 14, during the first day of my long fist class in my high school, I asked my long fist teacher, "What will you do if I punch at your face?" he said, "Come and punch me."

I wanted to learn how to fight. I didn't want to learn how to dance. If I didn't test my long fist teacher during my first day, how would I be able to know that I won't waste my time?

I know that my way of thinking may not belong to the main stream. May be my mom dropped my head on the ground when I was a baby. :)
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I dont see any value in issueing such challenges, nor in answering them. People think violence is a game. It isnt.
Challenge doesn't have to be violence.

Brendan Lai told me that one day someone walked into his school and challenged him. He told that guy, "Let's make this simple. I'm going to throw just 1 punch at you, if you can block my punch, you win, otherwise you lose" Brendan threw one punch. That guy could not block it. The challenge was over.

Many years ago, someone challenged me. I said, "You can use roundhouse kick to kick on my low leg as many times as you want to. If I demand to stop, you win. If you demand to stop, I win." When he roundhouse kicked my leg, I turned my shin bone into it.

IMO, both challenges were very civilized.
 
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Anarax

Anarax

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To Everyone who said yes below. Is there any behavior excluding criminal(drawing a weapon, threatening to kill you, etc) that you would see as grounds to not train them?

Yes, I would definitely teach them. Of course it was a red flag but in the example you described, it must have been a reach out for help or at least humbling. I cannot imagine trying to cherry pick students in a traditional MA setting.

I absolutely would, but my martial arts revolve around the ability to fight to the exclusion of all else.

I understand that someone might need to 'feel' it work before making a life commitment on the scale of serious ma training.

Red flag? I'll call that honest behavior.

When I was 14, during the first day of my long fist class in my high school, I asked my long fist teacher, "What will you do if I punch at your face?" he said, "Come and punch me."

I wanted to learn how to fight. I didn't want to learn how to dance. If I didn't test my long fist teacher during my first day, how would I be able to know that I won't waste my time?

I know that my way of thinking may not belong to the main stream. May be my mom dropped my head on the ground when I was a baby. :)
 

Martial D

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To Everyone who said yes below. Is there any behavior excluding criminal(drawing a weapon, threatening to kill you, etc) that you would see as grounds to not train them?
Well sure. Any challenge match would need to be agreed upon, we'd need to use gear and agree upon terms and whatnot. If a knife weilding dude stumbled in off the street attacking me, or some dude just got belligerent and wanted to fight, that would be a different bag of apples.

We fight in training already, adding one more guy would upset the cart.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I've only witnessed one person come into my Dojo and challenge one of the instructors. Long story short, the instructor easily handled him(after he signed the release) and knocked the wind out of him. He signed up for classes afterwards and trained for a few months.

My question is after beating them, would you agree to teach someone who walked in off the streets and challenged you? Do you see such behavior as a reflection of their character or a red flag? Why or why not?
It depends upon their attitude. I think they (the hypothetical challenger-cum-student) have a mistaken concept of a good instructor necessarily being the biggest badass in the room, but that doesnt preclude them being respectful. If the challenge is done with respect, Id probably be willing to teach them whether I won or not.
 

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I wouldn't get in that situation...it's a pointless thing to do. Why would I want to fight some amateur. I have nothing to prove I don't need to show everyone how good I am. If people want to learn from me great but if they don't think I can do it then they don't have to train with me I don't have to prove myself to anyone
 

JR 137

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I wouldn't get in that situation...it's a pointless thing to do. Why would I want to fight some amateur. I have nothing to prove I don't need to show everyone how good I am. If people want to learn from me great but if they don't think I can do it then they don't have to train with me I don't have to prove myself to anyone
I guess the challenge matches were big back in the day because if the CI lost, he lost credibility as a teacher and his students would leave. It was a way of gaining students for the challenger, not gaining the challenger as a student.

So Id walk into the Headhunter dojo and challenge you. Id beat you, then tell your students if you want to learn REAL MA, come to the JR-Do-Te dojo down the street. And students would. Im not talking feudal Japan and the like, Im talking as late as the mid-late 80s. The Gracies barn stormed dojos to spread BJJ, which is pretty much the same thing.

Edit: Not 100% what this thread is all about, but relevant.
 
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Buka

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Old people don't issue challenges for the most part. I figure, who am I to deny a youngster the experience of getting his **** handed to him, East Coast style, by an old haole.

Challenge away, but as always, be careful what you wish for. This ain't Gin Rummy.
 

Headhunter

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I guess the challenge matches were big back in the day because if the CI lost, he lost credibility as a teacher and his students would leave. It was a way of gaining students for the challenger, not gaining the challenger as a student.

So Id walk into the Headhunter dojo and challenge you. Id beat you, then tell your students if you want to learn REAL MA, come to the JR-Do-Te dojo down the street. And students would. Im not talking feudal Japan and the like, Im talking as late as the mid-late 80s. The Gracies barn stormed dojos to spread BJJ, which is pretty much the same thing.

Edit: Not 100% what this thread is all about, but relevant.
That's just nonsense and egotistical tbh. Just because you can beat someone in a fight doesn't mean the styles better or worse and it definitely doesn't determine who the better teacher is.

Yeah gr at the Gracie's went and fought people when no one knew what jiu jitsu was. Funny they don't do that anymore now that people are aware of it. Same as how Royce Gracie stopped fighting as soon as fighters started improving and he started having a harder time with opponents e.g Dan Severn, kimo, Heith Hackney, shamrock etc
 

Kung Fu Wang

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To Everyone who said yes below. Is there any behavior excluding criminal(drawing a weapon, threatening to kill you, etc) that you would see as grounds to not train them?
One day one guy walked into my school. He picked up a dumbbell from the ground and started to hit on his own head. He then said, "This is what I do everyday (a tough guy)". I pulled out a Colt 45, pointed at my head, and empty the bullets. I then said, "This is what I do everyday (another tough guy)." He turned around and left. :)
 

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The couple of times someone came in to challenge me, my senior students stopped them at the door. A challenger was never allowed to enter. It is a no-win situation, so why bother?
 

Headhunter

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The couple of times someone came in to challenge me, my senior students stopped them at the door. A challenger was never allowed to enter. It is a no-win situation, so why bother?
Agreed it's just stupid the only thing it does is disrupt the class for the students who've paid money to train. If I've paid whatever I pay a month I want the teacher to be training I don't want to be sitting around watching the coach fight some nobody
 

wab25

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One day one guy walked into my school. He picked up a dumbbell from the ground and started to hit on his own head. He then said, "This is what I do everyday (a tough guy)". I pulled out a Colt 45, pointed at my head, and empty the bullets. I then said, "This is what I do everyday (another tough guy)." He turned around and left. :)
If you really did that, its one of the dumbest things you could do. There could have been an accident. He could have pressed charges for you threatening him with a gun. He could have produced his own gun as soon as he saw yours. He could have panicked and ran away, tripping and falling... then he sues you. Lots of ways that could go very wrong, very fast.

However, what I really object to, is suggesting it here, on a public forum as anything but a bad idea. You may have meant that as a joke, but you never know who is or will be reading this. While most here have some experience and know better, who knows what kid will come by a read this really cool story about a master martial arts instructor putting a gun to his own head to deal with somebody else showing off. I would hate for some kid to think that was cool or worse yet try it.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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You may have meant that as a joke, but you never know who is or will be reading this..
When I put a :) It means a joke.

What truly happened was I accepted his challenge. He said that since he had 1 long leg and 1 short leg, he preferred punch only and no kick. So we did some fist fight (he set the rule and I accepted it).
 
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