Taekwondo stay in Olympics 2020!

Jaeimseu

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In Olympic TKD, the skill set and gymnasticism (made up word) is impressive. However, I agree with a previous poster: It is problematic to allow a player to score with a spinning/jumping kick and then fall to the ground without consequence. First of all, the technique is incomplete. Secondly, it is kind of like cheating but not. Either the score should not count if a player falls to the ground or the defender should be able to hit the person on the ground. Promoting TKD by creating rules for flashier maneuvers speaks of modern marketing techniques, rather than solid TKD techniques. I do not fault the players who use the rules to his/her favor, but I do find valid points of criticism in extolling flash over solid execution. Just imagine of gymnasts did not have to worry about landing correctly, think of all the wild flips he/she could execute?

I personally don't like that particular rule, either. The rule used to be no point if the player fell down, though a KO would still result in a victory. I would have thought that the referee could give a warning or take points off the board for "intentional" falling to avoid fighting, though. To me, there's a big difference between accidentally falling and purposely going down. Gymnasts have to stick the landing, but the other gymnasts aren't trying to kick them while they are performing their acrobatics.
 

Gnarlie

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In Olympic TKD, the skill set and gymnasticism (made up word) is impressive. However, I agree with a previous poster: It is problematic to allow a player to score with a spinning/jumping kick and then fall to the ground without consequence. First of all, the technique is incomplete. Secondly, it is kind of like cheating but not. Either the score should not count if a player falls to the ground or the defender should be able to hit the person on the ground. Promoting TKD by creating rules for flashier maneuvers speaks of modern marketing techniques, rather than solid TKD techniques. I do not fault the players who use the rules to his/her favor, but I do find valid points of criticism in extolling flash over solid execution. Just imagine of gymnasts did not have to worry about landing correctly, think of all the wild flips he/she could execute?

WTF rules on intentional falling and avoiding the match are pretty clear. Intentional falling incurs a half point penalty with a full point deductible for avoiding the match where the player repeatedly falls intentionally. This two rules and their interpretations are still current under the published WTF competition rules.

Additionally, points scored with the illegal falling technique can be invalidated.

Falling due to incidental contact with the opponent mid technique is not punishable, however. It's down to the centre referee to make that call whether the fall is intentional or incidental, and not many seem to deduct in my experience, so as not to interrupt the flow of the match and the entertainment.

Gnarlie
 

ETinCYQX

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I'm really enjoying olympic TKD the last few years. 2012 was an excellent year.

I see recommendations for a 10-point-must scoring system, and I have to say I don't think that's compatible with the Olympics. even Olympic boxing does not use a 10 point must system.

the olympics were the worst thing to happen to the MARTIAL ART of TKD, and this decision is a shame for wrestling.

an out and out shame

and dont bother trying to to tell me how wrong i am, because IMO i am not.

not in the slightest

olympic TKD is a joke, and needs to die in a fire, IN MY OPINION

Come on, you don't need to sugar coat it for us. How do you really feel?:uhyeah:
 

Manny

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Scoring a point doing a poor technike for example a spinin hook kick to the head falling down when performin it IMHO will not score at all but only if the other gay goes down in a full Knock Out. The same for the hogu points I really dislike to see TKDoings performing a blitz of peet chaguis and then fall to the ground and one or two points are awarded by the e-equipment.

Manny
 
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Markku P

Markku P

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Scoring a point doing a poor technike for example a spinin hook kick to the head falling down when performin it IMHO will not score at all but only if the other gay goes down in a full Knock Out. The same for the hogu points I really dislike to see TKDoings performing a blitz of peet chaguis and then fall to the ground and one or two points are awarded by the e-equipment.

Manny


I didn't get this. Do you want to see more knock outs with spinning kicks? I personally feel that rules are working well and many fights are now fun to watch.
 
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Markku P

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However, I agree with a previous poster: It is problematic to allow a player to score with a spinning/jumping kick and then fall to the ground without consequence. First of all, the technique is incomplete.

The technique is not incomplete if a fighter will score points :)
 

Metal

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I like how the current ruleset makes things waaay easier.

And Human failure as well as inequity aren't that much of an issue anymore.

If 'proper technique' or a minimum intensity for headkicks would come into play then it would be a step back. It would bring us back to the days where two people were fighting and in the end the Korean would win. ;-)
 

Daniel Sullivan

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It is a real shame for wrestling, but it is good that TKD remains. However, I would like to see an overhaul of the TKD rules and scoring system.

I have a lot of non-martial artist friends, as I am sure all of you guys do, but I feel that the way TKD is conducted at the Olympics shows martial arts in a bad light. A lot of my friends consider TKD in the Olympics to be the bench mark or base of all other martial arts and no matter how you explain the differences and complexities surrounding martial arts of differing styles, it is sometimes impossible to change their minds.

Question in point, 'How stupid is it to perform a jump spinning head kick to score more points even if you land on your ***? In the street that isn't practical.'
Outside of internet forums, I never get this kind of response from people about WTF taekwondo. People that I know from various MA styles all acknowledge that in any MA competition, techniques and target areas are going to be limited in some way and that the art, whatever it may be, has techniques outside of the competition rule set. They also acknowledge that within the rule set, players will execute their techniques in ways that take advantage of the rules, safety equipment, and in the case of combat arts that utilize weapons, the nature of competition weapons.

Fair point in all honesty, however, no matter how many times I explained that although I agreed with his view, street fighting is different to rules based competition. His answer, 'Well I don't see the point of doing any martial art if that is the way you guys fight.'

And no matter how much I explained that training for competition is completely different from training to fight realistically or for a SD perspective, his mind was made up after watching competitor after competitor fight the same way in the Olympics.

It can be frustrating, I have trained in TKD for 2 years previously and alongside the multitudes of other styles I have had the privilege to train in, you think he would understand my point of view due to my experience. But no, he believes Olympic TKD is the way all martial artists fight, he may be completely wrong, but others share the same belief.
I no longer bother explaining to people who are intent upon not getting it, either on the web or in person. Such people are intentionally ignorant. Given how few people actually see taekwondo in the Olympics (I don't recall it being televised at anytime people are awake, if at all), it is rather surprising that anyone would think that Olympic TKD is how all martial arts styles fight. Especially with judo, boxing, and up until now, wrestling all in the same Olympics.


Introducing Wushu or traditional Karate may be a good way to go in dispelling this myth, but if the rules for TKD were tweaked slightly, for instance, only scoring a technique that is performed correctly leaving the attacker in a solid safe position after the attack (such as is the case for Wado Ryu (for instance a reverse punch may only score a full point if the attacker's stance is correct, knee not dropping to the floor etc)).

But hey, these are only my opinions, would I like to see wrestling stay, yes. Do I want to see TKD go, no, but I do think there is a vast room for improvement.
Actually, making pumsae part of Olympic competition (it is part of WTF competition but is not in the Olympics) would go a lot further in addressing the gap between what you see in kyorugi and what the art as a whole contains.
 

Twin Fist

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maybe they get it, but dont agree. I understand every excuse you pro olympic types come up with, i just think they are all BS and the so called "sport" is just so much crap
 

Gorilla

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maybe they get it, but dont agree. I understand every excuse you pro olympic types come up with, i just think they are all BS and the so called "sport" is just so much crap

"pro olympic types"... BS...so called "sport"...I defer to you expertise on crap....You seem very good @ talking "crap"...I am sure that you are an expert @ recognizing it...form your mountain on high!
 

Twin Fist

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personal insults are a violation of the TOS

i didnt say anything personal to anyone, please refrain from making personal insults

"pro olympic types"... BS...so called "sport"...I defer to you expertise on crap....You seem very good @ talking "crap"...I am sure that you are an expert @ recognizing it...form your mountain on high!
 

Dirty Dog

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Ladies and Gentlemen, let us please return to the original topic and keep it polite and adult, shall we?

If you see something you consider a personal attack, style bashing or org bashing, please click the Report To Moderator button (the small triangle in the lower left corner of the post) and allow the moderation team to address it.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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maybe they get it, but dont agree. I understand every excuse you pro olympic types come up with, i just think they are all BS and the so called "sport" is just so much crap

I'm actually not pro Olympics. Placing a sport into the Olympics subjects it to the need to be TV friendly (some sports deal with this anyway). I'm all for a good performance on the television, but increasing viewers at the Olympics means making the sport appeal to people who are inherently unfamiliar with the sport. This creates an external agent of change that brings no benefit to the sport itself.

The incomplete presentation of taekwondo in the Olympics has already been mentioned by myself and others. I also question how much meaningful exposure it really gives taekwondo, given that it doesn't seem to be televised. The specialized rule set is what it is; you either like it or you don't.

That said, I am willing to accept the reality that for a good number of sports, taekwondo included, the Olympics is it. There is no pro-TKD league, and being a competitor outside of the Olympics will not earn you a paycheck unless you take your rep and use it to open a school or coach. Even being an Olympic medalist does not translate directly into financial security; for that, it needs to lead to a sponsorship deal. Failing that, you take your rep and use it to open a school or coach.

None of that makes the sport bad or demean the reputation of martial arts in general or taekwondo in particular. While Olympic TKD isn't my cup of coffee, I am happy for those who have put in the hard work and effort to make it to the Olympics.
 

Metal

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Even being an Olympic medalist does not translate directly into financial security; for that, it needs to lead to a sponsorship deal.

That's different from country to country. Didn't Rohullah Nikpa from Afgghanistan receive a house and car after he won won Olympic gold in Bejing?
 

ralphmcpherson

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That's different from country to country. Didn't Rohullah Nikpa from Afgghanistan receive a house and car after he won won Olympic gold in Bejing?

If an Australian gets gold at the Olympics they would be pretty much set up for life. Im sure lauren burns would still he reaping the rewards of tkd Olympic gold.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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That's different from country to country. Didn't Rohullah Nikpa from Afgghanistan receive a house and car after he won won Olympic gold in Bejing?
If an Australian gets gold at the Olympics they would be pretty much set up for life. Im sure lauren burns would still he reaping the rewards of tkd Olympic gold.
Interesting. From what I can tell, the Olympics will give a US athlete a lot of advantages, but is not a guarantee of financial success.
 

Jaeimseu

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Interesting. From what I can tell, the Olympics will give a US athlete a lot of advantages, but is not a guarantee of financial success.

Yeah, I don't think it's such a meal ticket in the US. In Korea, it's a pretty big deal. I think they get a stipend for life. I'm not sure how much though. I don't know if that's a fact. That's just what I heard.
 

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