Sparring Do's and Dont's
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
Are you practicing for self defense or sports performance?
If it's sports performance, then it's important to keep the rules of your chosen sport in mind.
If it's for self defense, you may want to consider the likelihood of being attacked by a "foam sword" on the street. You may also want to consider how you would defend yourself if you didn't "get a good height match-up."
-Rob
dancingalone
Grandmaster
You can't really learn how to fight without overcoming some pain and mental adversity. It's a good teacher that knows exactly when to mete out some physical obstacles for his student to meet and surpass. A good teacher also knows when his student is 'shutting down' and backs off accordingly.
I used to be my sensei's senior student when I lived in the same city he did, and it was my job to toughen up my fellow students during kumite or even during drills. I did it well because I was sensitive enough to know the right amount of force to use. Now that I have my own school, I still have to be the sword's edge myself, since I don't have a student yet that I trust to be the enforcer.
searcher
Senior Master
The only reason I don't allow them is that some of the lower ranks have just enough control and power to potentially burst another student's testicle(have seen it happen and don't want to see it again).
As far as the no punching the head. Because it is to easy? Go try to hit a skilled fighter in the head with a hand. It is not that easy.
And no face contact, what is this dance practice? We have gotten so scared about the sue happy people that we have forgotten about the martial side of our training.
As of tonight, I will not allow any more panzies in my school. I am so sick of the whining that I cannot stand it anymore. If people want their kids to train and not get hit, they can go somewhere else. It is time for us to get old school and start the weeding out process.
jarrod
Senior Master
regarding groin strikes: we don't throw them in sparring because the defense for them is the same as a leg kick. if you can kick someone's inner thigh, you probably could have gotten them in the stones. plus i almost never wear a cup.
i used to train at a karate school that allowed groin shots but not leg kicks. why? how the hell is a low-level roundhouse more dangerous than a groin kick?
jf
i used to train at a karate school that allowed groin shots but not leg kicks. why? how the hell is a low-level roundhouse more dangerous than a groin kick?
jf
karatemom
Green Belt
I hate being hit in the head! (I need to block better) . Right now we are practicing tournament sparring (tournament in 2 wks) so no punches to the head but you can kick to the headgear in tournament sparring - unfortunately I've been kicked in the nose twice in the past 2 weeks by somebody trying to kick to my headgear (both were BB's) and I'm only 5'2". Tonight was knocked down by a 16 yr old. :uhohh: Just laughed it off and
he helped me up when I reached up for help....
I'm either getting old or slow or I've lost my sparring mojo post toe injury.
I spar the green belts differently (cause they are new to sparring - no contact) then I would higher ranks and sometimes it depends on the person - some people just want to trade combo's (kicks/punches/blocks) and others wanna go all out. Our rule is supposed to be light contact but not everybody adheres to that.
he helped me up when I reached up for help....
I'm either getting old or slow or I've lost my sparring mojo post toe injury.
I spar the green belts differently (cause they are new to sparring - no contact) then I would higher ranks and sometimes it depends on the person - some people just want to trade combo's (kicks/punches/blocks) and others wanna go all out. Our rule is supposed to be light contact but not everybody adheres to that.
jarrod
Senior Master
oddly i've been hurt much worse wearing a cup than not. one of the fellers sneaks out, then BAM! pinched between me & the cup. i get naseous just thinking about it.
regarding leg kicks, you'd have to blast someone pretty hard to hurt their knee with a roundhouse. i'm not saying allow sidekicks to the knee during sparring, but i don't think roundhouses aimed at the thigh is very dangerous. well, no more than any other technique anyway.
jf
dancingalone
Grandmaster
It's very easy to miss the thigh or calf and connect with the knee instead in a live sparring situation where BOTH people are moving. Besides most (especially males) will instinctively shield their groin. The legs not so much. Fact is the leg kick is a fairly high percentage shot - I'm surprised more TKD people don't train it as a self-defense tactic given they are likely good kickers.
If your school is a KKW/WTF school, the reason for no punches to the head and spine are because they are forbid by the WTF sparring rules. It has nothing to do with punches to the head being too easy, though someone may have fed him that line to explain why the rule is such.I'm only a yellow belt, and I've never actually sparred, but my instructor has told us enough times for us to know the general rules ^^;;
No punches to the head - because it's too easyKicks only, and none to the face. Anywhere else is fine.
EVERYTHING above the belt.
"Sparring is like a game of tag", not full force knock-'em-down brawl.
Kicks to the back aren't allowed.
Then there's the rules everyone uses - guard up always, be sportsmanlike, apologize if you made a mistake
If he truly believes that sparring is like a game of tag, think very carefully before you continue at this school. If he doesn't believe that, but he's teaching his students that anyway, then get out quick, because in that scenario, he's willfully shortchanging his students and any training you receive is gong to be far bellow par.
If what you want out of class is a family oriented hobby, then this type of sparring is nice.
If you are expecting to develope any real athletic skill, be competative, or develop any level of self defense skills, then that instructor will not be able to get you there. Chances are, his instructor couldn't or didn't for him either. Not the place to spend your hard earned cash.
Daniel
JadeDragon3
Black Belt
I'm all for training for real fighting but my God you sound like your running a school for mercenary training. Kicks to the groin, hitting so hard so you can build your pain tolerance, training so hard so you won't have any "wusses", etc.... Training like this its a wonder you have any students. Sometimes you have to fight/sparr a little light so you can learn the technique and then oncwe you got the mechanics of it down then you can go harder and faster with it but to go as hard as your talking about it sounds like you aren't going to learn as well and get hurt a lot more. If your hurt and can't train then what good does that do you?
CoryKS
Senior Master
Partners agree upon amount of force used
No leg shots except in the kickboxing class
Groin shots allowed and strongly encouraged
Below brown, no head shots and all gear must be worn.
Brown and black can strike to the head unless sparring with below brown, and can remove any/all protective gear except mouthpiece and cup
No takedowns unless followed up with strike
safety, respect, control
The transition to brown belt is tricky because without head strikes you tend to get in the habit of keeping your guard low. On the other hand, you become very mindful of keeping it up after the first couple of shots.
No leg shots except in the kickboxing class
Groin shots allowed and strongly encouraged
Below brown, no head shots and all gear must be worn.
Brown and black can strike to the head unless sparring with below brown, and can remove any/all protective gear except mouthpiece and cup
No takedowns unless followed up with strike
safety, respect, control
The transition to brown belt is tricky because without head strikes you tend to get in the habit of keeping your guard low. On the other hand, you become very mindful of keeping it up after the first couple of shots.
We spar WTF style, so certain decisions are already made for us.
Dos:
Kicks to the torso and head.
Kicks to the face too for adults (15+) dan-bo and above.
Punches to the body.
Kicking hard.
Wearing hogu.
Wearing cup.
Wearing mouthpiece.
Keep your guard high enough to guard against head shots and low enough to guard against body blows.
Don'ts:
Strikes below the belt.
Hand strikes of any kind to the neck/head/face area.
Pushing.
Sweeps and takedows.
Locks.
Grabs of any kind.
Hands at your sides unless you're Muhammad Ali good.
We have mixed classes (family class) where the kids are encouraged to go full contact and if they're sparring with an adult, the adult is told to keep the contact light. Blackbelts fifteen and older are considered adults for sparring purposes.
All students are encouraged to develope the technique to kick and punch hard, rather than relying on muscling through.
It is not the ideal from an SD perspective, though we do have SD training. When sparring WTF, we take it seriously and expect the students to fight as strongly as possible within the rule set. GM Kim emphasizes that this is most definitely not a game of tag, and will ride students who are not delivering a "trembling shock" with their strikes.
One last comment, unrelated to the topic. I'd love to train at Twin Fist's dojang, if only proximity were not an issue.
Daniel
Dos:
Kicks to the torso and head.
Kicks to the face too for adults (15+) dan-bo and above.
Punches to the body.
Kicking hard.
Wearing hogu.
Wearing cup.
Wearing mouthpiece.
Keep your guard high enough to guard against head shots and low enough to guard against body blows.
Don'ts:
Strikes below the belt.
Hand strikes of any kind to the neck/head/face area.
Pushing.
Sweeps and takedows.
Locks.
Grabs of any kind.
Hands at your sides unless you're Muhammad Ali good.
We have mixed classes (family class) where the kids are encouraged to go full contact and if they're sparring with an adult, the adult is told to keep the contact light. Blackbelts fifteen and older are considered adults for sparring purposes.
All students are encouraged to develope the technique to kick and punch hard, rather than relying on muscling through.
It is not the ideal from an SD perspective, though we do have SD training. When sparring WTF, we take it seriously and expect the students to fight as strongly as possible within the rule set. GM Kim emphasizes that this is most definitely not a game of tag, and will ride students who are not delivering a "trembling shock" with their strikes.
One last comment, unrelated to the topic. I'd love to train at Twin Fist's dojang, if only proximity were not an issue.
Daniel
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
Jade, it isnt like "ok, this is your second class, put some gear on and get ready to bleed"......... in fact, i make my students wait till at least thier first belt, which in my school can be as long as 6 months.
I have had exactly TWO injuries. Lots of ouchies, only 2 injuries.
1-sprained ankle when someone backpeddled wrong
2-a small, and i mean like 1/4 inch cut on the bridge of thier nose. They walked into a kick.
I dont count the busted toe I got when I got sloppy about pulling my toes back. That was my own damn fault.
pain is common, injuries are not. My students learn to make pain thier friend, to enjoy pain. To feed off of it.
now having said that:
will you get kicked in the groin on the street?
thats why I train them to gaurd thier junk
will you get hit HARD on the street?
thats why they get hit hard in my school.
Will you get thrown down on the street?
thats why i throw them down, to see how they will handle it.
I do stuff to my students that most schools dont even think about till brown belt level.wusses need not apply at my school.
why?
The biggest advantage a trained martial artist has in the street is that we prob wont freeze when we get hit, since we ought to be used to getting hit. Take the average soft civilian, punch them in the face. They are most likely gonna FREEZE for a second, and in that second, the fight is lost. Possibly thier life as well.
not gonna happen
not to me, not to my students, not now, not ever.
I have had exactly TWO injuries. Lots of ouchies, only 2 injuries.
1-sprained ankle when someone backpeddled wrong
2-a small, and i mean like 1/4 inch cut on the bridge of thier nose. They walked into a kick.
I dont count the busted toe I got when I got sloppy about pulling my toes back. That was my own damn fault.
pain is common, injuries are not. My students learn to make pain thier friend, to enjoy pain. To feed off of it.
now having said that:
will you get kicked in the groin on the street?
thats why I train them to gaurd thier junk
will you get hit HARD on the street?
thats why they get hit hard in my school.
Will you get thrown down on the street?
thats why i throw them down, to see how they will handle it.
I do stuff to my students that most schools dont even think about till brown belt level.wusses need not apply at my school.
why?
The biggest advantage a trained martial artist has in the street is that we prob wont freeze when we get hit, since we ought to be used to getting hit. Take the average soft civilian, punch them in the face. They are most likely gonna FREEZE for a second, and in that second, the fight is lost. Possibly thier life as well.
not gonna happen
not to me, not to my students, not now, not ever.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
hogu's are for wussies.........
One last comment, unrelated to the topic. I'd love to train at Twin Fist's dojang, if only proximity were not an issue.
Daniel
ok you redeemed yourself. You sir, are extended a permanent invitation to my school.
I know.
But I play the hand I was dealt. We do non-hogu SD in hapkido, but I didn't bring that up, since in our taekwondo class, we do very little. I shopped around and most of the places around here that had taekwondo had that foam sword nonsense and like four levels of each of their twelve to fifteen belts, so since I already trained in kendo at the same place and knew that his class was a pretty tough class as KKW/WTF goes, I decided that I was better off wth him.
When I first signed up for the class, we did more realistic training. Once he offered the hapkido, he made the distinction that hapkido was his SD class and taekwondo was his sport/competition class. It works pretty well; students that can't handle ouchies or being twisted and thrown, and who just 'can't do breakfalls' stay away.
Make no mistake; he runs a very hard and very challenging taekwondo class. But nobody will mistake it for a hardcore class. Our hapkido classes are a lot rougher and believe it or not, we're pretty hardcore in kendo. The taekwondo students mouths hang open when they watch the kendo class warm up and drill. Our sparring scares them away, hehe.
YAYY!!!!! My thanks!!
Daniel
Red Menace
Yellow Belt
For those of you who spar without WTF-style rules or hogus, I have to say I'm curious how you avoid serious injury. When allowing punches to the face are they bare-knuckle or with a glove of some kind? Do students have black eyes all the time? Noses aren't getting broken? I know that it isn't easy to punch a trained fighter in the head but it's got to happen with some frequency. Ribs don't get cracked by kicks? Never?
We do WTF sparring at my school, and do not view it as a game of tag, but we acknowledge that it is a game with rules. I often think I might like to engage in more realistic fighting of some kind, and perhaps I'm a "wussie", but I'm not sure how it would work without me or my partner getting a serious beatdown, and hobbling into work the next day. Please enlighten me, and if there is any video of the students at your school sparring (in a full contact way) that you could share, please do.
We do WTF sparring at my school, and do not view it as a game of tag, but we acknowledge that it is a game with rules. I often think I might like to engage in more realistic fighting of some kind, and perhaps I'm a "wussie", but I'm not sure how it would work without me or my partner getting a serious beatdown, and hobbling into work the next day. Please enlighten me, and if there is any video of the students at your school sparring (in a full contact way) that you could share, please do.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
Learning control is an important part of martial arts, as important as learning to unleash yourself full-force. The only serious injuries we have had were from chronically uncontrolled students, who are asked to leave if they don't change their behavior.
