All this talk of Black Belts!

[RobinTKD]

It's come up now in numerous threads about the amount of time devoted to it, what it means, why there isn't a standardised length of time to reach it etc.

Surely we should all forget about it? I'm a recently graded yellow belt, and I couldn't care less about how long it takes me to get to BB, only that I can be the best I can be at it! Currently I train 5 hours a week over three nights, I would do more if possible. Shouldn't we encourage kids/newcomers to forget about rank and concentrate only on improving their ability?

Maybe all martial arts would benefit from just dropping belts entirely. If my Master told me i could grade for my BB within a year, I'd be sceptical about, firstly, my abilities, and secondly, his motivation for it.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It's come up now in numerous threads about the amount of time devoted to it, what it means, why there isn't a standardised length of time to reach it etc.

A staple of martial arts forums. No fewer than eight of these things going at any one time on active MA boards.

Surely we should all forget about it? I'm a recently graded yellow belt, and I couldn't care less about how long it takes me to get to BB, only that I can be the best I can be at it! Currently I train 5 hours a week over three nights, I would do more if possible. Shouldn't we encourage kids/newcomers to forget about rank and concentrate only on improving their ability?

Forget about it??? On an internet forum??? Never happen.

Maybe all martial arts would benefit from just dropping belts entirely.

I posted a thread about that very subject not too long ago. Weigh in if you'd like. I'd be happy to have your input.

http://www.martialtalk.com//forum/showthread.php?t=81954&highlight=belts

If my Master told me i could grade for my BB within a year, I'd be sceptical about, firstly, my abilities, and secondly, his motivation for it.

Why? Realistically, if training is all that matters, then aside from instructors using belt testings to bilk people, what difference does it make?

Being in the know (laymen are not), I'd be inclined to ask why is time to first dan is shorter than average and the cost of grading. After listening to his answers, I'd watch a class. If it looked like he's just fast tracking people and trying to collect every last dime from me through gradings, I'd be out the door.

If he refuses to answer, or gives me some non-answer designed to keep me interested withough him having to give disclusure (I worked in sales for years, so I recognize retail sales exercises when I see them), I'm out the door.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Well Robin let me just say his in all my years of owning and operating a school people care about rank. I have lost more students over this issue than I can remember because the school down the street gave little Johnny his belt test every month. Tae Kwon Do has become the new soccor mom syndrome of this century, everybody does it and it is a place for family to spend time together. The sport has changed over the years to include five years old getting a medal, now every local tournament makes sure everybody recieve a medal or something so tey can feel good about.

The forum follows what is being dictated in the market place and right now it is about BB's and the time it takes.

Just for the record at my school no schedule or time tables for belt promotion the test when they are ready.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I have two HKD students that I teach privately, both of them having been at it for over a year. Their green belt test will probably be next month or in April. Both are pretty much there, but there is some detail work that I want them to clean up first. My green belt test is a comprehensive test of all of the material from learned from white belt. I don't have any black belt students at this point and I have no time table to black belt. I've already discussed KMA where I train on another thread.

I treat belts simply as an accessory to gather the dobok and to mark the student's progress. Having a stack of colored belts and colored belts with stripes, I'm using the striped belts until I run out, after which the only colors that I will be using are white, green, blue, red, and black.

Students under fifteen also get a yellow between white and green and will receive a red/black instead of a black belt. After turning fifteen, assuming they have been training regularly, will be reviewed on the material and will receive their black belt.

I had considered running a beltless class at one point, but as hapkido traditionally has belts, I chose to maintain a progression of belts, though I wanted to keep it to eight or less, even for the kids.

As I said, I have no timeline, as I don't want to hear anyone say, "but your website says..." or "but when I signed up, you said..." when they don't get it as fast as they think that they should.

Oh, and aside from the black belt, I don't charge for tests at all.

Daniel

 

[StudentCarl]

It's come up now in numerous threads about the amount of time devoted to it, what it means, why there isn't a standardised length of time to reach it etc.

Surely we should all forget about it? I'm a recently graded yellow belt, and I couldn't care less about how long it takes me to get to BB, only that I can be the best I can be at it! Currently I train 5 hours a week over three nights, I would do more if possible. Shouldn't we encourage kids/newcomers to forget about rank and concentrate only on improving their ability?

Maybe all martial arts would benefit from just dropping belts entirely. If my Master told me i could grade for my BB within a year, I'd be sceptical about, firstly, my abilities, and secondly, his motivation for it.

Robin, first--welcome to the forum. I understand your idea that what matters is the training and not the belt, something that I think most here support. But most here are long time students, and recognize that there is a process of growth and maturation that happens the longer an artist trains. Belts are recognition of some of the milestones in that growth, and the discussion of how those milestones are marked is part of our thinking about our own training and/or, in some cases, how masters run their schools and think about their own students.

To answer your question: you are welcome to forget about it or just not reply, but the discussion isn't meaningless to us or we wouldn't participate in it. This forum is like dinner table discussion--sometimes the topics are emotional, sometimes philosophical, sometimes just physical technique, sometimes personal, etc. If you don't take it too seriously you'll find some gems occasionally. I learn here, though not everything I learn is wise or useful, and sometimes it's just entertaining.

I wonder if your black belt will matter more to you if/when you earn it. I'm about a year out +/-. I think it will be a milestone I'll be proud of, but yes, it's main job will be to keep my dobok top from flying all over while I keep learning and stretching my limits.

Carl

 

[andyjeffries]

Surely we should all forget about it? I'm a recently graded yellow belt, and I couldn't care less about how long it takes me to get to BB, only that I can be the best I can be at it!

I think you are thinking right that you shouldn't be motivated by rank, you should be motivated by self improvement.

However, from the instructor's point of view - seeing a particular colour belt around your waist gives me a good first guesstimate of the techniques you'll know and where your skill level is roughly.

This helps when teaching a class and I know I can suggest a technique for you to do that you should know, and be generally correct.

It's obviously more helpful within a dojang/group of dojangs where each student follows roughly the same syllabus - but it's helpful with guests/seminar type situations too.

Of course, once you get to black belt I'd expect you to be able to do pretty much all the techniques or follow along to pick them up with needing an individual/small group step-by-step slow walkthrough. So while being able to tell what dan rank someone hold is less important, the colour belt ranks change so frequently that it can be a useful quick indicator.

Anyway, just thought I'd give you the other side of the view...

 

[mango.man]

I couldn't care less about how long it takes me to get to BB
...
If my Master told me i could grade for my BB within a year, I'd be sceptical about, firstly, my abilities, and secondly, his motivation for it.

I am confused, not an uncommon occurrence. Do you care how long it takes to get your BB or not? And if you do care, do you only care if the length of time it takes is a year but if it is longer than a year then you do not care how long it takes?

 

[RobinTKD]

I am confused, not an uncommon occurrence. Do you care how long it takes to get your BB or not? And if you do care, do you only care if the length of time it takes is a year but if it is longer than a year then you do not care how long it takes?

I mean that I don't care how long at all. The second quote there is just a hypothetical situation, I don't believe that I could earn a black belt in a year, but even if I could (or was told I could) it still wouldn't matter to me. I just want to be good at Taekwon-Do!

 

[Kacey]

It's come up now in numerous threads about the amount of time devoted to it, what it means, why there isn't a standardised length of time to reach it etc.

There's not a standardized time frame because there are multiple variations of TKD being taught, and each variation has its own set of requirements. This is neither good nor bad - it simply is.

Surely we should all forget about it? I'm a recently graded yellow belt, and I couldn't care less about how long it takes me to get to BB, only that I can be the best I can be at it! Currently I train 5 hours a week over three nights, I would do more if possible. Shouldn't we encourage kids/newcomers to forget about rank and concentrate only on improving their ability?

Maybe all martial arts would benefit from just dropping belts entirely. If my Master told me i could grade for my BB within a year, I'd be sceptical about, firstly, my abilities, and secondly, his motivation for it.

As Andy stated, this is a great perspective - but very few junior students have this perspective. Martial arts did not originally have ranks - practitioners would have at most a few students at a time, and would be aware of exactly where each student was in training, what each student needed, etc.

The commercialization of instruction is what lead to the need for ranks - as class sizes increased, instructor knowledge of individual students' abilities became less detailed, and the need for a less individual, more sequential instructional format arose, as did a need for a quick way for instructors, or visitors to a class, to be able to know roughly what a student, or group of students, would be likely to know and able to do - leading to the institution of a rank structure.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

As someone else said, when you get your black belt it may mean something to you. When I was a yellow belt, black belt seemed so far off that I thought the same way you did. Dont get me wrong, Im not motivated by rank and would be just as happy training without belts. In saying that, getting my black belt was not easy, it was not just handed to me after "showing up and learnng the basics for 2 years". I trained very hard, took up running to keep up with the fitness levels required, and applied myself like nothing Ive ever done before. The day I got handed my black belt was a day I wont forget, I know how hard I worked to get it despite injuries and setbacks along the way. The best part for me was that its now longer between gradings so I can focus more on the aspects of the art where I feel I need to improve. As a coloured belt I was grading every 4 months or so, so most of my time was spent on grading requiremnts.