Some MA teachers only teach form without application?

[Same Trick91 42]

There are two very obvious benefits: it helps one develop evenly in terms of skills and physical development which makes a person more well-rounded and able to respond more spontaneously, and it’s a hell of a good mental exercise and that keeps your brain and perceptions sharp. I’m sure there are more.

The guys that created the traditional forms were pretty clever that’s why most traditional forms in most traditional East Asian martial arts are well balanced and don’t need to be experimented with in regards of inverting/mirroring.
Speaking on taijiquan as a simple example, one doesn’t need to practice the form mirrored to be able to do pushhands exercises with switching sides

 

[Flying Crane]

The guys that created the traditional forms were pretty clever that’s why most traditional forms in most traditional East Asian martial arts are well balanced and don’t need to be experimented with in regards of inverting/mirroring.
Speaking on taijiquan as a simple example, one doesn’t need to practice the form mirrored to be able to do pushhands exercises with switching sides

Ok, you do you. It’s all good. We each find the way that works for us.

 

[Same Trick91 42]

Ok, you do you. It’s all good. We each find the way that works for us.

At more experienced levels the objectives of the taiji form takes an omnipresent/spherical sense, as forum member “windwalker” puts it with”rings on the water is also good metaphor. If one put attention to the 13 postures explanation one see clearly the intention of the taiji form is not one sided but all-sided.
However such things may be seen too abstract to take in so it’s missed and one misses out the true treasure the Taiji form hold, Perhaps therefore teachers that tell their students to mirroring their Taiji form tell so to hint in a more “practical “ way fit to the student that it’s already there in the form as it is

 

[windwalker099146 176]

You need a Taiji teacher to teach you the correct Taiji form. Even your Taiji teacher doesn't teach you the application, he still needs to teach you the correct way to shift your body weight, proper method of breathing, and ...

For example, in this short video "Taiji ending", it involves 2 inhales and 2 exhales (This is the only place that 1 inhale and 1 exhale = 1 move rule has been broken).

1. Inhale - when your arms are above your head.
2. Exhale - when your arms cross in front of your chest.
3. Inhale - when your arms are separated to shoulder width.
4. Exhale - when your hands finally drop down next to your knees.

The application of this move is "藏气 store Qi" and may not have any combat application at all. Someone taught a 90 minutes workshop and charged $60 by teaching this "Taiji ending". For health, this Taiji ending move can offer a lot.

Some thoughts on breathing from a different perspective

The Essence of Yang Style Tai Chi” by Wei Shuren

" It is especially important to point out here that the opening and closing of the body has nothing to do with breathing. Don't force the "open for exhalation, close for inhalation" boxing movements and breathing to mix together. Fundamentally speaking, this breathing method is completely contrary to the basic requirement of Tai Chi, which is "relaxation".

When practicing boxing, you should be in a natural breathing state every minute and every second, just like breathing in daily life. You should not pay attention to when to exhale and when to inhale.

Only in this way can you truly "not be aware of exhaling and inhaling while practicing boxing". Only then can you enter the stage of moving the body with Qi (true Qi). Those who practice Taiji. "


What is correct should align with one's practice, according with one's expectation of the practice.

 

[Kung Fu Wang146 176]

" It is especially important to point out here that the opening and closing of the body has nothing to do with breathing.

When you

- raise your arms above your head, your lung is expanded.
- drop your arms beside your knees, your lung is compressed.

I don't know how you can

- exhale when your lung is expanded, and
- inhale when your lung is compressed.

 

[Wing Woo Gar81 4]

I understand it is a real niche weapon.

Yeah definitely not my thing.

 

[windwalker099146 176]

When you

- raise your arms above your head, your lung is expanded.
- drop your arms beside your knees, your lung is compressed.

I don't know how you can

- exhale when your lung is expanded, and
- inhale when your lung is compressed.

You might want to look at how breathing is achieved.

These movements can influence breathing mechanics, but they do not directly expand or compress the lungs in the same way that inhaling and exhaling do.

 

[Wing Woo Gar81 4]

Yes doing the form in an exact mirroring for performance sake may be challenging, but such practice I can’t see a “taiji-wize” overall essential value for the performer

It can change your viewpoint and give you more fluency in application. Don’t trust my words, just try it. You’ve nothing to lose for the effort.

 

[Wing Woo Gar81 4]

There are two very obvious benefits: it helps one develop evenly in terms of skills and physical development which makes a person more well-rounded and able to respond more spontaneously, and it’s a hell of a good mental exercise and that keeps your brain and perceptions sharp. I’m sure there are more.

Precisely.

 

[Same Trick91 42]

Some thoughts on breathing from a different perspective

The Essence of Yang Style Tai Chi” by Wei Shuren

" It is especially important to point out here that the opening and closing of the body has nothing to do with breathing. Don't force the "open for exhalation, close for inhalation" boxing movements and breathing to mix together. Fundamentally speaking, this breathing method is completely contrary to the basic requirement of Tai Chi, which is "relaxation".

When practicing boxing, you should be in a natural breathing state every minute and every second, just like breathing in daily life. You should not pay attention to when to exhale and when to inhale.

Only in this way can you truly "not be aware of exhaling and inhaling while practicing boxing". Only then can you enter the stage of moving the body with Qi (true Qi). Those who practice Taiji. "


What is correct should align with one's practice, according with one's expectation of the practice.

Yes, this is so simple, if correctly relaxed and posture correct breath will follow smoothly and natural

 

[Same Trick91 42]

It can change your viewpoint and give you more fluency in application. Don’t trust my words, just try it. You’ve nothing to lose for the effort.

In my younger years I was into karate for +20 years, some ppl back then had the idea of doing the forms(Kata) in mirroring way, I found it a waste of time so I didn’t hook on it, our school/dojo also never taught it in that way and that school is one of the most successful in producing national champions both in kata as well as kumite

 

[HighKick]

I disagree. I find very few can perform the long form to the left to the same level as they can to the right. Try it.

Back in the day, we would do the color belt forms in both directions. Also, all drills (which we still do). Can I do them the same on both sides? I would say it would be very close.
Remember, in most forms you do the movements on both sides at some point anyway.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've always done drills equally with both sides. In my experience, dojo usually train this way. In sparring, while I have a few techniques that I'm better at with one side or another, for the most part I am ambidextrous with my technique and will switch lead sides often. This gives the opponent more potential angles of attack to consider in his defense making his job harder.

Kata is a different matter. Using the left or right side depends on the application and the series of moves which set it up. The question has been brought up in the past of why a series of moves are not often done equally with both sides. The fact is about 90% of potential attackers are right-handed, probably more in the past when the kata were created, so it makes sense that most of the combos are designed against right-handers.

I've worked both sides enough that I'm never quite sure which I prefer forward when sparring, except with kicks (many years of soccer left me more confident kicking with my right foot, even after years of MA practice).

 

[Wing Woo Gar81 4]

I've worked both sides enough that I'm never quite sure which I prefer forward when sparring, except with kicks (many years of soccer left me more confident kicking with my right foot, even after years of MA practice).

That’s a very useful skill, and exactly the reason of why I do both sides.

 

[Kung Fu Wang146 176]

I've worked both sides enough that I'm never quite sure which I prefer forward when sparring,

My teacher told me that he had 90% confidence on his right side. He only had 70% confidence on his left side. If my previous generation was not equal on both sides, I don't expect to be equal on both sides.

Most people put strong side back. I like to put strong side forward for the following reasons.

- If my opponent moves to my side door, he won't use my leading arm to jam my own strong back arm.
- My leading strong arm can cover more angles no matter where my opponent moves.
- My leading strong side have more reach.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My teacher told me that he had 90% confidence on his right side. He only had 70% confidence on his left side. If my previous generation was not equal on both sides, I don't expect to be equal on both sides.

Most people put strong side back. I like to put strong side forward for the following reasons.

- If my opponent moves to my side door, he won't use my leading arm to jam my own strong back arm.
- My leading strong arm can cover more angles no matter where my opponent moves.
- My leading strong side have more reach.

I’m definitely not equal on both sides, but I have different strengths depending which side is forward, so it’s tough to say which side is better forward.

 

[HighKick]

I've worked both sides enough that I'm never quite sure which I prefer forward when sparring, except with kicks (many years of soccer left me more confident kicking with my right foot, even after years of MA practice).

I am seudo-ambidextrous. I am left-handed and it is my dominant punching hand, but I would rather grab you with my right hand (I think from years of carrying a weapon on my left hip). I am fairly equal on kicks, but it is kick dependent. Linear and rotational kicks are equal. For spinning kicks, I used to be better at counterclockwise, left leg kicks but now eighter side kind of sucks when spinning.
I have always been a change-up fighter, so I am comfortable with either leg up front.

 

[Kung Fu Wang146 176]

I have always been a change-up fighter, so I am comfortable with either leg up front.

In tournament, I like to attack my opponent's left side first and make him think I'm a left-hand person. When he tries to protect his left side, he may open up his right side for me.

 

[Headbald]

Hung Ga is a good art but I was taught by someone completely hopeless. Me and other students were asked to queue up, perform the form and then queue up again and then repeat the form and then queue up again, the cycle was endless. Then we did unrealistic two person drills which do not reflect real life attacks.
No sparring at all, not even for the seniors. We did not even hit,punch or kick any sandbags or pads to test our striking efficiency. I had to go home and punch the cement wall. Calling a former shifu hopeless would be considered extremely sacrilegious but would you be quiet when your "training" failed you and you got touched inappropriately by another dude, and get your back tapped repeatedly by the same dude all the while you yourself was never taught how to hold up your fists in a guard position? And that was *only* the second time I got pushed around.
I've already moved on to another kung fu art which I shall not name and the shifu is totally different. There is striking of pads, sparring and the shifu is open minded enough to watch MMA and boxing clips and then discuss the techniques. Good riddance to the old school.

 

[Wing Woo Gar81 4]

Hung Ga is a good art but I was taught by someone completely hopeless. Me and other students were asked to queue up, perform the form and then queue up again and then repeat the form and then queue up again, the cycle was endless. Then we did unrealistic two person drills which do not reflect real life attacks.
No sparring at all, not even for the seniors. We did not even hit,punch or kick any sandbags or pads to test our striking efficiency. I had to go home and punch the cement wall. Calling a former shifu hopeless would be considered extremely sacrilegious but would you be quiet when your "training" failed you and you got touched inappropriately by another dude, and get your back tapped repeatedly by the same dude all the while you yourself was never taught how to hold up your fists in a guard position? And that was *only* the second time I got pushed around.
I've already moved on to another kung fu art which I shall not name and the shifu is totally different. There is striking of pads, sparring and the shifu is open minded enough to watch MMA and boxing clips and then discuss the techniques. Good riddance to the old school.

There is a certain amount of endless repetition that is required before sparring will be useful. How long did you train Hung Gar?