Skip Dan promotions, when is it ok?
- Thread starter Twin Fist
- Start date
I would hope its when they have completed the same time it would have been anyway and know the material.
I would also never test for my 5th unless I was running a school. Its just my opinion but I believe everything over 4th Dan should be about being a Master in the sense of growing the art.
Dave O.
I would also never test for my 5th unless I was running a school. Its just my opinion but I believe everything over 4th Dan should be about being a Master in the sense of growing the art.
Dave O.
mozzandherb
Green Belt
I think it would be o.k to skip a colored belt, but not a black belt or dan of any kind. The reason is because I there are a lot of people who quit an art and then go back to white belt, but they remember a lot of what they had learned. In that case I would see it o.k to skip let's say from green stripe to green or blue to red stripe, but once you're a BB I dont think skipping a dan should be allowed
OP
OP
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
1) Time in grade and content requirements covered-especially when "time in grade" winds up equating to the time required to say, go from 2nd to 4th dan, and the person has learned the requirements to 4th dan.
2) Epsecially after 4th or 5th dan, or whenever the organizations ranks begin having less to do with content and ability, and more to do with how the person is conducting themselves-say the content for the style ends at 4th dan, and the requirements thereafter are less tangible-"honor, spirit, committment, contributions to the ryu, etc." Under these circumstances, a promotion to 6th dan might be called for for an exceptional individual.
3) This one is a little weird, but many teachers bestow rank with the intention that the person grow into it. It's not quite an indication of ability and knowledge as much as it is potential. I've seen this a lot with people returning from overseas, even when the organization had representation in the U.S.-not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the person involved recognizes it for what it is.
4) When the testing authority says so.- some combination of all of the above, perhaps?
5) Never. I've been a karate 3rd dan for 15 years now. I don't know that I'll ever test for 4th dan, and if I do, I certainly would feel odd about skipping to 5th-not that I have to worry about it happening. I earned a tae kwon do 2nd dan more than 20 years ago-I have no intention of receiving further grading in that art, and would feel more than odd about doing so-especially if grade skipping were involved......
What he said. :lfao:
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ArmorOfGod
Senior Master
Nah, no point in having a 5 year old 1st dan skip to 3rd dan. Just wait until they are 7 or 8 and let them test like the rest of the group.
;-)
AoG
You haven't seen your instructor in 6 years.
You are learning multiple forms in 6-8 weeks for testing.
Your instructor is testing you because of time in rank rather than personal evaluation of your readiness.
You are wanting to know if it is OK to skip a Dan.
Even the ATA does not have that much laxity in their standards. Put a camo stripe on that Black Belt of yours.
Listen up. I am in the ATA because there is nothing closer for 1+ hours drive in good weather. I am not a fan of the way things are done in the ATA, but, even they would not do these things.
You seem to have a good foundation in TKD. Do not cheapen it.
You are learning multiple forms in 6-8 weeks for testing.
Your instructor is testing you because of time in rank rather than personal evaluation of your readiness.
You are wanting to know if it is OK to skip a Dan.
Even the ATA does not have that much laxity in their standards. Put a camo stripe on that Black Belt of yours.
Listen up. I am in the ATA because there is nothing closer for 1+ hours drive in good weather. I am not a fan of the way things are done in the ATA, but, even they would not do these things.
You seem to have a good foundation in TKD. Do not cheapen it.
OP
OP
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
uh, dude?
I created the thread because skip dan'ing was mentioned in terry's thread about the USAT test.
it has nothing to do with me.
in point of fact, I dont have a problem with skipping Dan ranks, my instructor was skip dan'ed from 3rd to 5th.
under certain conditions, like those outlined by Elder, i think it is ok. That being said, i would be very uncomfortable taking one. And would do so only under protest, and I would insist that I did test, even if it was after the fact.
And BTW- o have time in rank and i am a SCHOOL OWNER.
As for you getting all defensive about the ATA, deal with it, they have earned every bit of scorn they get
so back up off me.
I created the thread because skip dan'ing was mentioned in terry's thread about the USAT test.
it has nothing to do with me.
in point of fact, I dont have a problem with skipping Dan ranks, my instructor was skip dan'ed from 3rd to 5th.
under certain conditions, like those outlined by Elder, i think it is ok. That being said, i would be very uncomfortable taking one. And would do so only under protest, and I would insist that I did test, even if it was after the fact.
And BTW- o have time in rank and i am a SCHOOL OWNER.
As for you getting all defensive about the ATA, deal with it, they have earned every bit of scorn they get
so back up off me.
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In my case, I was a 2nd Dan for 19 years (& actively training) simply because I trusted the wrong person. There's a guy who's 1st gup testing board I sat on in 1990 who is now a 6th Dan (in two Arts!)....but that's another story.
I didn't skip dan when I tested last year, but I can imagine the idea was designed around folks in my type of situation.
I didn't skip dan when I tested last year, but I can imagine the idea was designed around folks in my type of situation.
Kwan Jang
Purple Belt
Under normal circumstances, I am opposed to the skip dan being available. Unfortunately, there are some people out there who were led to believe that they were testing for rank that was KKW certified and they passed the test they were given, but nothing was forwarded to Korea (including the fees). For these people and a few others that may have not gotten the recognition they should due to politics, racism, ect. I feel that the option can be a good one. However, I feel it should be very closely monitiored and controlled against the possible abuses that could too easily occur. IMO, it should NEVER be used for the "my student/child/ spouse is SO awesome that they should be skipped up a level and I am a master/GM with enough clout to make it happen" reason.
TF wrote:
I hadn't read Terry's thread and your original post said nothing about being a follow-up to a different thread.
Immaterial to the discussion.
So,
Sorry, it's my opinion that skipping a rank, ANY RANK, is cheap.
I hadn't read Terry's thread and your original post said nothing about being a follow-up to a different thread.
Immaterial to the discussion.
So,
I'll give my opinion whether or not I'm defensive about the ATA or not. You like to harp on the ATA, but when you do things that they do and get chided for it you want me to "Back Off".
Sorry, it's my opinion that skipping a rank, ANY RANK, is cheap.
jarrod
Senior Master
i dunno, i skipped a couple kyu ranks in jujitsu based on previous experience. somehow i sleep at night.
i do think skipping dan ranks should only be in exceptional cases though.
jf
searcher
Senior Master
It is one thing to skip kyu/gup ranks, but what is the real purpose of skipping Dan ranks? IMO, it serves no purpose. My 1st Dan and 4th Dan were more important to me then my 5th or 6th Dan. A BB should be a BB, it should not really matter what your Dan rank is. Unless it is part of some peeing match.
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
I really, really disapprove, but that doesn't mean it does any actual harm.
On paper, I rate 3rd dan in Judo and Jiu Jutsu because the master of a system rolled with me for a couple of weekends. I've never formally trained in either, outside of those weekend seminars...but I wrestled in high school and college. Based on my performance on the ground, he just gave them to me.
I'm uncomfortable about it, but was I gonna shout him down in front of him and all his students? I only ever mention it on resumes, but then the modern resume is really a genre of historical fiction....
On paper, I rate 3rd dan in Judo and Jiu Jutsu because the master of a system rolled with me for a couple of weekends. I've never formally trained in either, outside of those weekend seminars...but I wrestled in high school and college. Based on my performance on the ground, he just gave them to me.
I'm uncomfortable about it, but was I gonna shout him down in front of him and all his students? I only ever mention it on resumes, but then the modern resume is really a genre of historical fiction....
It depends on the circumstance.
My statement is from a Karate point of view, but maybe it can shed some light into this matter.
In some cases, such as the USA-NKF rankings, you're testing for a more "universal ranking," and I see no reason why someone who is, say, a 6th dan in a particular style of Karate, should have to test for 1st dan, under the USA-NKF guidelines.
If I were testing for a USA-NKF ranking, I'm would be shooting for at least sandan.
However, this is for an organization whose rankings are meant to supplement, and not replace, your school's actual ranking.
Within a given school, I firmly believe that people testing for dan rankings should go through each level. If someone is that exceptional of a student, that they should be of a higher ranking than what they just tested for, then let them test again at a later date, but at a sooner time than they normally would. In those cases, it's not the earliness of the next test they would take that bugs me; it's more like the lateness of the current test.
My statement is from a Karate point of view, but maybe it can shed some light into this matter.
In some cases, such as the USA-NKF rankings, you're testing for a more "universal ranking," and I see no reason why someone who is, say, a 6th dan in a particular style of Karate, should have to test for 1st dan, under the USA-NKF guidelines.
If I were testing for a USA-NKF ranking, I'm would be shooting for at least sandan.
However, this is for an organization whose rankings are meant to supplement, and not replace, your school's actual ranking.
Within a given school, I firmly believe that people testing for dan rankings should go through each level. If someone is that exceptional of a student, that they should be of a higher ranking than what they just tested for, then let them test again at a later date, but at a sooner time than they normally would. In those cases, it's not the earliness of the next test they would take that bugs me; it's more like the lateness of the current test.
OP
OP
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
Immaterial to the discussion. you attacked me, my integrity, and my intentions when you didnt have a clue what you were talking about. I will take your apology, please tender it.
All I did was ask people's opinions, and I dont do ANYTHING that the ATA does. I dont skip kyu ranks, i dont invent belts like camo to get extra test fees, i dont promote 7 year olds to BB, I dont charge 5000 for an instructors cert, i dont promote BB's that cant fight, do I need to go on?
Hey, i get it, i would be defensive too if i was part of the ATA, thier sins are well known, and beyond defense
Skipping Kyu ranks? thats bad, each one is an important step in the students knowledge. Dan ranks not so much. Read your history, Dan ranks have always been about senority, not skill.
IF you had any Dan rank, you would know that.
well, it is certainly cheaper than the way the ATA does things......for the student that is
