Should I speak up?

[evenflow1121]

.
The man has no control and has hit several people in the head (a big no no for us). --LMAO

You are in a tough spot, but these things happen from time to time when someone is old or they have some sort of disability. I wouldnt worry too much about this one incident if I were you. QUOTE]

 

[dsp921]

Sure go ahead and say something

Befoer you do, ask yourself what will YOU look like afterward?

I used to work out in a style where even the plethra of masters who flocked our group were terrible...nevertheless, masters they were (and probably still are).

Make certain you are looking at your own improvements and not comparing those to the journey of another. If he has been around longer than yourself, there is not much of a way you can dispute where he started.

Keep in mind the impression many people hold of BB adn masters is one of a 'humble' person. If you go tattling on your classmates....will you then make an outstanding bb yourself?

cheers

Why quote me, I'm not the original poster on this thread? I recommended they don't talk to the instructor and if it really bothers them they should go elsewhere.
I still think the guy's attitude stinks, at least as described here.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I agree with the majority of posters here, as to focusing on your own training, even though I know it must make you nuts to see the poor forms, and hear this guy talking about how he doesn't have to try or train. That seems absurd. But it is in the head instructor's hands.

I also would like to underline the point a few others have made here - this guy can not perform well and say what he likes, but hitting without control or hitting inappropriately is *just* not OK. That is one issue I *would* (in private) take up with the instructor(s) of the class where you are sparring. If he can dish it, he should be able to take a reply to the head as well, since he has been training so long. (Compared to a newbie, who may not realize how hard they are hitting, the rules of sparring, etc.)

Definetly follow up on that. You *aren't* there to be someone's punching bag!

 

[ginshun]

I would think that there is no harm in talking to your instructer in private about it, but ultimately it is up to him, and not really something you should worry yourself about. It may put your mind a little more at ease if he were willing to discuss his motives with you. Whether he will or not is hard to say, but it is worth a try if the issue is important to you, which is obviously is.

It seems the most dangerous part of this would be you losing respect for your instructer because he promotes someone that (you feel) shouldn't be promoted. If this is not the case then don't let yourself be bothered by the skills (or lack thereof) of another student, and just concetrate on upping your own skill level.

 

[Phoenix44]

If a 60 year old alter cocker can hit you in the head, he can't be that bad, can he?

1. If the guy's a 60 year old brown belt, it probably means he started training in his 50s. Give him some credit for that. Statistically speaking, most of the people who sign up at Martial Talk will have quit martial arts long before that. I hope I'm still training at 60.

2. Sorry to say, there are some aspects of black belt that are relative, not absolute. I'm a black belt, but I'll never be as good as my instructor, who's been training 35 years. He might never be as good as his instructor. That doesn't mean we don't deserve our respective ranks.

3. Don't forget what black belt means. It's not the pinnacle of martial arts. It simply means you've gained some mastery over the basics, so that you can begin to train. So let's not be too full of ourselves.

4. Finally, this may be the very best he can do, and that should count for a lot. It's easy for a 20 year old who's a "natural"--but is he any more deserving of a black belt than more limited people who worked it and persisted nevertheless?

 

[msaker]

There are many fields of endeavor where you must attain a certain level to pass. You will not be awarded an honorary title for Scuba Diving, a Skilled Trade or a Driver's License because of the level of danger to yourself or the general public.

The question then, is a Black Belt a Certificate of Qualification or maybe just a Title.

Mike

 

[Fightback2]

Don't get me wrong - I do admire the guy for sticking in there. It's admirable for a man of his age (he's actually 68) to be training at all. I do give him credit for that, I really do.

Understand - he's blatantly open about this stuff in front of new students and kids. It's one thing to be that way in front of those of us who've been in and around the school for a few years and know the whole story but to wave it around like a red flag is just - I don't know - ultimately arrogant. I watch the faces of the newbies when he stands around before class and says that he's not going to kumite no matter who tells him to and he doesn't have to practice outside of class because he knows he's going to get the belt anyway. They get this look like, oh, OK, this is going to be a breeze and then they start copping attitudes to the senior students. One bad apple and all that.

I've pretty much decided to keep my mouth shut (at least until I get home after class and can rant in private) but I'm also not going to give him any more free shots without a good block or a return strike (just enough to sting). I'll let you know if I end up with stitches in my tongue from biting it all evening .

All of your advice and comments were good points. Sometimes I can go off half-cocked - like you hadn't guessed that already - when I get passionate about something like this school.

Thanks all.

 

[msaker]

Just another thought, and I don't have any "Dr. Phil" in me. But it would seem to me that a man of that age would have been thought a lot in his life. Is it Possible he is challenging the whole school to work harder, or just make him "man up". By talking so openly about this easy grading and just having his belt handed to him maybe he wants you to tell the teacher so the teach will become more strick, not just on him but for every one. He's not keeping it a secret is he?

Just Rambling
Mike

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Understand - he's blatantly open about this stuff in front of new students and kids. It's one thing to be that way in front of those of us who've been in and around the school for a few years and know the whole story but to wave it around like a red flag is just - I don't know - ultimately arrogant. I watch the faces of the newbies when he stands around before class and says that he's not going to kumite no matter who tells him to and he doesn't have to practice outside of class because he knows he's going to get the belt anyway. They get this look like, oh, OK, this is going to be a breeze and then they start copping attitudes to the senior students. One bad apple and all that.

My relationship with my instructor is one where we discuss things that concern the school, but my instructor's door is open for all students. It seems this is not the case in all schools. Discussing a person's negative influence on you and others and discussing a decision to promote someone are different things. You could consider following in the chain of command and opening up to one of the senior instructors who teach you about his attitude. What you describe here in this post is an issue that needs to be brought to the head instructor's attention, as it concerns his business interests in terms of new students. However, the important thing for you to know here is that most likely if this student is that blatant, the senior instructors and head instructor are already well aware of it. If other students are developing negative attitudes as a result of their contact with this man, than it becomes a problem for the instructors and ultimately the health of the school.

The problem overall appears mostly to be involving his attitude. I do agree with what many have said here that you should also consider focusing on your training, but I also liked the advice someone gave to have you see if there is a way you can help this man reach his goal. His attitude may be what it is because he fears what he believes he is incapable of doing and therefore "puts it out there" for everyone to see so he will avoid open criticism concerning his skills. This may be a case where a black belt awarded may totally change the attitude of this man for the better and once he crosses the sort of imaginary line of being a black belt he may relax and begin to get into his true training. People sometimes (especially some older people who are not as physically fit or feel the pressure of the clock ticking) get frustrated and caught up in the goal of becoming a black belt, and your head instructor, from experience, may be aware that that is the case here. I myself have seen people really change attitude wise for the better after getting their black belts, and soon after in every way looking more like black belts should. In some the transformation was incredible. I hope that is the case for you, because I can see how much it bothers you and how much you care. Ultimately your sense of patience and discipline are being tested here, and hopefully you are learning good things about yourself as a martial artist and person in this process. :asian:

 

[mj-hi-yah]

msaker welcome to Martial Talk! :asian:

 

[Gemini]

You brought up a couple of really good points here.

However, the important thing for you to know here is that most likely if this student is that blatant, the senior instructors and head instructor are already well aware of it.

In my previous post, this is what I was leading to. I suspect the head instructor is well aware of this man, and what the best course of action is to take. Even if it's not apparent to a newer student. Such situations were pretty common for me in my early years.

This may be a case where a black belt awarded may totally change the attitude of this man for the better and once he crosses the imaginary line of being a black belt he may relax and begin to get into his true training. People sometimes (especially some older people who are not as physically fit or feel the pressure of the clock ticking) get frustrated and caught up in the goal of becoming a black belt, and your head instructor, from experience, may be aware that that is the case here. I myself have seen people really change attitude wise for the better after getting their black belts, and soon after in every way looking more like black belts should. In some the transformation was incredible

This is so true. I don't really know why, but most students seem to "transform" to some degree after receiving their BB. Again, speaking from my own experience, even I did. it was like a huge weight being lifted off my shoulders and everything seemed to start coming to me easier.

 

[MJS]

I agree, you are in a tough situation. By all means, I would address your concerns with your instructor, but like others have said, do it privately. Ultimately, it is your instructors decision to promote whoever he wants, but it appears that this gentleman has been given many free rides and he certainly is aware of this due to his attitude towards the Black Belt. The person has a poor attitude IMHO, but again, this is due to his getting by with what he already has.

Keep training hard and don't let this discourage you, as hard as it may be. Regardless of his rank, you know that you've put in a bunch of hard work, and that is most important. Its much better to work hard and earn something than to just have it handed to you.

Mike

 

[Sin]

Never be afraid to voice your opinion, especally to your sensei in confidentiality. Just be respectful.

 

[bdparsons]

Remember, ultimately the only person your responsible for is yourself. Unfortunately the individual in question will probably come away with an overblown sense of his own skills. This responsibility lies with the instructor not yourself. You will not always agree with your instructor, get used to it, they are fallible just like everyone else.

The real problem's his loud claim--assuming that you've actually heard him do it--that he's got it made and doesn't need to train. Where I'm from, it would be...unwise...to tell the black belts that.

:erg: Agreed!

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[Bod]

mj-hi-yah: This may be a case where a black belt awarded may totally change the attitude of this man for the better and once he crosses the sort of imaginary line of being a black belt he may relax and begin to get into his true training.

Good point MJ.

Also, you may find that after his black belt he will quit. Many do. Perhaps that is what your instructor is hoping for FightBack.

Failing that, go down when he hits you in the head. Then get up and say, 'Don't worry I'm OK'. Then fall down again.

 

[dsp921]

I'm not sure I agree with promoting someone to Black Belt and hoping that their attitude changes for the better. It's my opinion that you should be showing all the qualities of a good BB prior to being tested. Chances are just as good the attitude will get worse.

 

[Fightback2]

Failing that, go down when he hits you in the head. Then get up and say, 'Don't worry I'm OK'. Then fall down again.

Hmmmm - now there's a thought. LOL