Respect for instructors

[Kenpo_man]

This question pertains to the idea that a student needs to respect his instructor to recieve good training. What if you know a little of your intructor's personal affairs and it doesn't impress you much. It's not something you wish you knew but you knew it. The instructor is always curteous and polite and his/her knowledge of the art is outstsanding, but, hanging in the background is that bit of knowledge that causes more than a little loss of respect for his/her personal decisions. How do you feel this weighs on training? Should it be ignored as it is none of your business? If you've ever encountered this situation please tell the story and it's final outcome.

 

[Grenadier]

Just as a rule of thumb:

What goes on in the dojo stays in the dojo.

What goes on outside of the dojo, stays outside of the dojo.

If, say, the instructor has done a few shameful things in the past, but that has no bearing on his ability to be an instructor, I'd simply say "leave it be." You are there to train, not to act as a social agent. Did the fellow, for example, have a few too many and get a DUI one night? As long as he's taking responsibility, and doing things to correct his mistakes, then that shouldn't have a bearing on his instruction. Did he, for example, cheat on his wife? Then that's between him and his wife, not you and him.

There are some exceptions to this, though. If, say, he's a convicted felon, a habitual hard drug user, sexually harassing students, or a child molestor, then that obviously takes precedent! Such parts of one's history could very well be detrimental to the future of the dojo, and that's what must take precedent.

If this is something that can cause a disruption to the dojo, then take it up with the chief instructor.

Sometimes it's not easy to make that call, though. Some situations are borderline, and that's where it gets very difficult.

 

[Drac]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...As Grenadier posted "There are exceptions"..If its not one of those serious problems, leave it be..

 

[Kenpo_man]

Thanks for the reply.

Just as a rule of thumb:

What goes on in the dojo stays in the dojo.

What goes on outside of the dojo, stays outside of the dojo

That's the way I have tried to approach it.

It is on a level with cheating on a spouse though that's not what it is. It is simply a matter of lost respect. I am curious to see how similar situations have affected other people.

 

[terryl965]

Well you are there for training is your training the way you want it, if so leave it at the door if not use there personal life to walk away. Simplicity, if one needs to be perfect without sin then we all have failed.
I myself did some stupid things in my youth does that make me less of a man for it no does it effect the people I train sure, for I have the wisdom through experiences to help guide people done the right path and not make the same mistake I have made.
Terry

 

[chinto01]

Just because the person is an instructor does not mean he is without his flaws. We all have our own demons to fight. In doing some research you will find that most of the old masters had some kind of vice or another anything from cheating on their spouse to drinking. These were ordinary men that had great ability in the arts. We should always remember this.

in the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Jade Tigress]

No one can tell you whether you should respect your instructor or not. For some people a personal issue can easily be separated from training, for others it is closely tied to respect as a whole and can interfere with training. How do you feel about it? You've said you lost some respect for this instructor. How is it affecting your training? A lot? Not at all? Do feel a loss of respect for yourself by continuing to train with this instructor even if the actual training is not suffering?

No one can answer this question for you. We all have flaws, we all make mistakes, and some make moral failures that, for whatever reason, we can't overlook or get past. That's when respect is lost. You'll have to look at the issue and how you feel about it, then decide the impact it will have on the student/teacher relationship, and your training, and whether or not you can live with the situation.

Also, make sure you have all your facts straight. I would hate for you to lose respect for your instructor without having the whole story. Have you talked to him about your concerns? There could be more than meets the eye here.

 

[Drac]

We all have our own demons to fight. In doing some research you will find that most of the old masters had some kind of vice or another anything from cheating on their spouse to drinking. These were ordinary men that had great ability in the arts

Bravo,well said...

 

[jdinca]

I guess the goal of all of us is to get to a place where we can "walk the talk". This guy did some things you lost respect for him over. Does he know that you know? Have you talked about it outside the school (if appropriate)? And if so, did he acknowledge his mistake and is trying to be a better person? I think the answer to those questions will give you some guidance. We're all human with human fallability. The question is what do we do to counteract or minimize those traits we recognize in ourselves.

As for training inside the school, if he's good, then just keep going with it. Yeah, you're going to have that little thing in the back of your mind but try and focus more on training and make it go away. As for the more cerebral MA goals of mind and spirit, you may want to look to others for that type of guidance depending on the situation.

 

[TigerWoman]

I was put in the position of having to go against my instructor, a master, owner of the school. It was for reason I couldn't deny, it was personal, and my integrity was at stake as well. It was costly as I was at the time training for 2nd dan. What was extremely difficult at first, train under an instructor who you not only don't respect but don't trust any longer, but who treats you like you weren't there. From being his #1 supporter, his oldest and second highest ranking student, to a student he wanted out. It was an uphill battle, no one would want to fight. I won't get into all again. Finally some two and half years later, an apology, albeit an unfeeling one did help somewhat although it was forced by the rest of the students. Least it made me come back. In order for me to do this, to function as a student, I had to think of him, the master, as just an instructor like you would encounter in a high school. I give him the same respect I would give any other student. For the most part, I said yes sir and did the workout. But do I trust him, no. He undoubtedly knows this. He still doesn't teach me as an individual, but since I can't get to third dan because of the jumping requirements to train, I have given up on training for that, and after all, I'm 56. Funny, today in class, he made it a point to tell us, the 45 yr olds black belt class that we should stay in until our 70's! I guess he is looking at his bottom line. I fought to be an instructor but just tonight I noticed that he once again got the time wrong on the schedule. No wonder I don't get many students. Sigh! TW

 

[tshadowchaser]

It kind of breaks down to your views on whatever it was that might cause you to not respect him/her. If you can look past what ever it was and train without it being formost in your mind then I'd say train. if it is always there in theat dark area of your brain and causes you to not learn or holds you back from doing well in class the get out.
As had been said many of the old masters had an aspect of their lives that some people could not abide by but others put the "problems" outside of the training area and learned a lot.
If you really can not respect the person dont study with them because you will be putting on a false face to gain knowledge

 

[MJS]

Great replies so far!! I'd say it would depend on what he is doing that is causing doubt. I tend though to, unless it is directly involving me, to stay out of the personal affairs of people. I'm there to train.

Mike

 

[BlackCatBonz]

some people can be great teachers and have great people skills......but they can still make mistakes.
are you able to look past their mistakes, or not?
is it something that you cant look beyond?
ultimately, it is up to you to make the decision.

 

[Fluffy]

I don't think anyone can answer for you....it's how you feel in this case.


If it were me, and if I knew my instructor my instructor picked his nose.....I don't care. But if he were a level 3 sex preditor, that would be a different story. "What happens outside the Dojo........." I wish it were that simple, it goes to character.

 

[DeLamar.J]

This question pertains to the idea that a student needs to respect his instructor to recieve good training. What if you know a little of your intructor's personal affairs and it doesn't impress you much. It's not something you wish you knew but you knew it. The instructor is always curteous and polite and his/her knowledge of the art is outstsanding, but, hanging in the background is that bit of knowledge that causes more than a little loss of respect for his/her personal decisions. How do you feel this weighs on training? Should it be ignored as it is none of your business? If you've ever encountered this situation please tell the story and it's final outcome.

As long as you are getting the services you are paying for, than I dont see a problem.

 

[Jade Tigress]

"What happens outside the Dojo........." I wish it were that simple, it goes to character.

Right. It's not that simple. Character does matter - though it's important to have all the facts before making a character judgement on someone.

 

[MartialIntent]

As has been stated uppost, we're all flawed in one way or another.

Provided the instructor's flaw is not illegal[!], where I'd draw the line would be when the instructor is operating outside the tenets of your art or dojo. Then he's teaching one thing and doing another, in which case his integrity may be in question.

Obviously for some this is not important, for me it's never a matter of keeping what happens in the school and what happens outside separate and I think the problem with many schools and practitioners is they miss out on opportunities to capitalize on using their knowledge, skill, adaptibility and inner strength in contact to the benefit of their own communities, families and social circles.

I've always tried [possibly not very well...] to blur the boundary between dojo and community. I do try to walk the walk and admire those who strive to bring the benefits of their art into wider society. Of course I fail but it's about intent. If the instructor in this case doesn't have the appropriate intent, questions rightly should be asked.

Good luck!