Re No Peace in the Holy Land

[Andy Moynihan]

But then, I stopped considering the Times a reputable news source almost 10 years ago, so....*shrug*.

 

[elder999]

But then, I stopped considering the Times a reputable news source almost 10 years ago, so....*shrug*.

Have you read it? Did you read the article? While it offers that the majority of Israelis seem to wholeheartedly support the Israeli governments actions in Gaza, it also offers some alternative viewpoints from the Israeli public. Which means that they at least sought them out.......around the world, people are protesting the Israeli government's actions-not so much here, but in Europe, and certainly in what we'd call "Islamic" countries, like Iran and Pakistan. That's worth paying attention to, because, for better or worse, our support of Israel isone of the things that has made us a target of terrorism, time and time again....

 

[Twin Fist]

if supporting Israel makes us enemies like the islamic nutbarks, then i would say that is proof that our support of Israel is the right thing to do.

If people who think stoning a 13 year old girl who was raped is the right thing to do dont like you, you are doing something right.

 

[sgtmac_46]

if supporting Israel makes us enemies like the islamic nutbarks, then i would say that is proof that our support of Israel is the right thing to do.

If people who think stoning a 13 year old girl who was raped is the right thing to do dont like you, you are doing something right.

I think we're safely on the right side of that equation!

 

[sgtmac_46]

Have you read it? Did you read the article? While it offers that the majority of Israelis seem to wholeheartedly support the Israeli governments actions in Gaza, it also offers some alternative viewpoints from the Israeli public. Which means that they at least sought them out.......around the world, people are protesting the Israeli government's actions-not so much here, but in Europe, and certainly in what we'd call "Islamic" countries, like Iran and Pakistan. That's worth paying attention to, because, for better or worse, our support of Israel isone of the things that has made us a target of terrorism, time and time again....

Yeah, Europe has a long history of....shall we say.....'interesting' views on Israel in particular, and jews in general.

And if fear of making some islamists angry makes us cower away from supporting allies we don't deserve to continue to exist as a nation!

 

[sgtmac_46]

And, in today's New York Times:

It should be disproportionate! The price for attacking ME should be SO HIGH that you really don't find much to gain by doing it, and everything to lose! NOT an eye for an eye, but TWO eyes for an eye!

Nemo me impune lacessit

When you're on the kind of PRISON YARD playground Israel lives in, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO PLAY THAT WAY! Overwhelming violence as the PRICE your enemy pays for attacking you is the ONLY WAY to survive in that kind of environment.

In that world, a man punches you in the nose, you stab him to death and leaving him laying in a pool of his own blood as a message to others.....disproportionate violence isn't only acceptable, it's REQUIRED! In that world, tit for tat quid pro quo proportional escalation, or WORSE, 'diplomatic' groveling is SUICIDE!

 

[elder999]

If people who think stoning a 13 year old girl who was raped is the right thing to do dont like you, you are doing something right.

Of course, this happened in Somalia-not in Gaza.

Meanwhile, in other news :

Israeli envoy plans 'decisive' talks in Egypt


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israel's chief negotiator will go to Egypt for "decisive" talks on a cease-fire with Hamas, officials said Tuesday, as the sound of battles between Israeli troops and Palestinian militants rang out in the crowded streets of Gaza City.

With international outrage mounting over the toll on Gaza's civilians, Israel's decision to send Defense Ministry official Amos Gilad to Egypt on Thursday could be a signal of progress. Gilad had postponed the trip for days.

Diplomatic efforts to end 18 days of fighting have moved slowly, in part because of the wide gaps between Israel and Hamas, who do not negotiate directly.
Israel says it will push forward with the offensive until Hamas ends all rocket fire on southern Israel, and there are guarantees the Iranian-backed militant group will stop smuggling weapons into Gaza through the porous Egyptian border.

Hamas has said it will only observe a cease-fire if Israel withdraws from Gaza.

 

[elder999]

And, moving along in other news:

Israeli forces shell UN headquarters in Gaza

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli forces shelled the United Nations headquarters in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, setting fire to the compound filled with hundreds of refugees as U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon was in the region on a mission to end Israel's devastating offensive against the territory's Hamas rulers.

Ban expressed "outrage" over the bombing. He said Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak told him there had been a "grave mistake" and promised to pay extra attention to protecting U.N. installations. The Israeli military had no immediate comment on the bombing, which a U.N. official said injured at least three people.

Even as a top Israeli envoy went to Egypt to discuss a cease-fire proposal, the military pushed farther into Gaza in an apparent effort to step up pressure on Hamas. Ground forces thrust deep into a crowded neighborhood for the first time, sending terrified residents fleeing for cover.

 

[CoryKS]

Ban expressed "outrage" over the bombing.

Which is pretty much all the "United" Nations can do. Strongly-worded letter thus dispatched, they can go back to doing, uh, whatever the hell it is they do.

 

[Twin Fist]

Of course, this happened in Somalia-not in Gaza.

Muslims in both cases

 

[elder999]

Well, it depends upon what flavor of Islam you're talking about, but what happens in Somalia hardly seems relevant to the current discussion. Lumping "Muslims" together does no one any service, since there are entirely different sects and systems of belief under its umbrella. Most of the Islamic authorities of the Middle East, and probably even Eastern Europe would find the Muslims of Southeast Asia, who have retained elements of Hunduism and Animism in their religious practices, to be somewhat if not wholly heretical, for example.

In any case, while Hamas is almost certainly entirely Islamic, the population of Gaza is not. Of course, their Christian population is very small-and getting smaller, it seems-but there is a presence of Palestinian Christians there, just as there are in the West Bank and Israel itself....there is, in fact, a population of Jews within Gaza, though this is rather small as well.

 

[Tez3]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21434471-2703,00.html

Hamas and women