The Ceasefire

[Big Don]

The Ceasefire

By Andrew C. McCarthy National Review EXCERPT:

November 21, 2012 2:53 P.M.
​

It’s amusing to read (in Patrick’s update) that the Israeli government has agreed, as part of the “ceasefire,” to stop the “targeting of individuals.” What moral universe do we live in where Hamas launches hundreds of missiles and sets off bombs the intent of which is the mass homicide of civilians, yet what the world is whipped up about is Israel’s targeted assassination of the jihadist leaders who direct the mass homicide of civilians?

If you’re actually concerned about human rights, Israel’s approach, targeting the terror chiefs in order to minimize civilian casualties (notwithstanding that Palestinian civilians are the ones who voted to put Hamas in charge), compares quite favorably to Hamas’s intentional targeting of civilians and its storage of military assets in and around civilian infrastructure — guaranteeing that there will be Palestinian civilian casualties when Israel inevitably reacts to Hamas’s relentless provocations. If Israel is not going to target the terrorist leaders — who then have license to orchestrate mass-murder attacks with impunity — what is it going to target?
END EXCERPT
I agree, Israel shouldn't target individuals, they should carpet bomb the bastards, ala Dresden. Clearly the policy of carefully and with as little loss of civilian casualties, taking out those actively firing rockets into Israel doesn't work. Maybe if they actually slaughtered people like cattle, the terrorist rat bastards would think twice.

 

[WC_lun]

Yeah, because more dead people are going to help the problem. Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

Israel agreed to stop targeting leaders of Humas because it is in thier own best interest to do so. With Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood brokering the cease fire, if Humas breaks it, it puts the onus on Egypt to keep them in line. Read; it is up to a Muslim country to keep the Muslim Humas in line. This will further legitimize any actions Israel takes If Egypt does not do something when Humas breaks the ceasefire. Its a win win scenario for Israel. Right now they do not have to spend either treasure or lives for work to be done in thier behalf to stop the missiles.

 

[Tez3]

It's not if Hamas break the ceasefire it's when and that was three hours into it when they fired 20 rockets into Israel and then this http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162427#.UK7fVIfAeSo

 

[WC_lun]

Agreed Tez. Humas left to thier own devices will not stop the rocket attacks. Especially given thier fractured nature and thier inability to understand what is actually good for the Palastinian people as a whole. Humas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. It is hoped that perhaps the Muslim Brotherhood can exert some influence, countering Iran's influence with Humas. It will not be an overnight thing though. When Israel has finally had enough, Egypt will have to stand by them, telling the world that Humas refused to negotiate in good faith. In my opinion, the cease fire is nothing more than a good pr campaign for Israel to negate the nonsense Humas has been releasing. If it actually works in getting something solved, so much the better. Though I think that is unlikely.

 

[CanuckMA]

First, it's Hamas.

They have no problem policing the 'collaborators'. They control Gaza. They could control Islamic Jihad if they wanted. Problem, they don't want to. It's just to damn convenient to call for a cease fire and when rockets are still flying, turn to the world and declare "It's not us. It's IJ". Unfortunately, too much of the world eats it up.

 

[WC_lun]

Sorry about the misspelling. I might be a little hungry and did a Freudian slip

Hamas is more than capable of doing what you say. However, I think Egypt will exert as much pressure as they can. Egypt is hoping that the Palastinians will organize into something that can be dealt with politically, creating another ally for Egypt and one that distrust Israel. So I think they will work hard for peace. I do not think Hamas has the ability to become solidified enough to understand what is in thier own best interest though. They continue to cry about how oppressed the Palastinians are, yet they oppress the Palastinians as well. Palastinian civilians suffer when Israel counter attacks against missile launches, yet they continue to attack, provoking Israel to do just that. I believe Egypt will find out what Israel already knows, that negotiating with Hamas is like negotiating with a very spoiled child bent on doing something self destructive.

 

[granfire]

Sorry about the misspelling. I might be a little hungry and did a Freudian slip

Hamas is more than capable of doing what you say. However, I think Egypt will exert as much pressure as they can. Egypt is hoping that the Palastinians will organize into something that can be dealt with politically, creating another ally for Egypt and one that distrust Israel. So I think they will work hard for peace. I do not think Hamas has the ability to become solidified enough to understand what is in thier own best interest though. They continue to cry about how oppressed the Palastinians are, yet they oppress the Palastinians as well. Palastinian civilians suffer when Israel counter attacks against missile launches, yet they continue to attack, provoking Israel to do just that. I believe Egypt will find out what Israel already knows, that negotiating with Hamas is like negotiating with a very spoiled child bent on doing something self destructive.

Oh, Honey. To hell with the civilians...they are no better than sheep.

 

[Tez3]

Hamas however take their orders from Iran who train and bankroll them.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/21/iran-supplied-hamas-missile-technology

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9103086332

A lot of people have been voicing their opinion that Israel should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, many thinking that this would come sooner rather than later so it's no surprise that Iran primes Hamas to attack Israel is it? Many people have been pushing Israel to bomb Iran, perhaps they may like to think twice in the future.

 

[Makalakumu]

Hamas however take their orders from Iran who train and bankroll them.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/21/iran-supplied-hamas-missile-technology

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9103086332

A lot of people have been voicing their opinion that Israel should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, many thinking that this would come sooner rather than later so it's no surprise that Iran primes Hamas to attack Israel is it? Many people have been pushing Israel to bomb Iran, perhaps they may like to think twice in the future.

What if "Hamas" is a psyop designed to provoke war with Iran? Have governments ever pretended to be their own enemies and attack themselves in order to provoke a wider war, one that would be unpopular with the people unless a "greater threat" materializes?

 

[CanuckMA]

What if "Hamas" is a psyop designed to provoke war with Iran? Have governments ever pretended to be their own enemies and attack themselves in order to provoke a wider war, one that would be unpopular with the people unless a "greater threat" materializes?

Not quite sure if that is the sickest or stupidiest thing you've ever written. Considering that Hamas has been lobbing rockets at Israel for more than a decade, long before a war with iran was even a consideration.

 

[WC_lun]

What if "Hamas" is a psyop designed to provoke war with Iran? Have governments ever pretended to be their own enemies and attack themselves in order to provoke a wider war, one that would be unpopular with the people unless a "greater threat" materializes?

I think your tin foil hat might be on too tight

 

[Makalakumu]

Not quite sure if that is the sickest or stupidiest thing you've ever written. Considering that Hamas has been lobbing rockets at Israel for more than a decade, long before a war with iran was even a consideration.

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/pub607.pdf

This monograph examines the role of pseudo operations in several
foreign counterinsurgency campaigns. Pseudo operations are those
in which government forces disguised as guerrillas, normally along
with guerrilla defectors, operate as teams to infiltrate insurgent
areas. This technique has been used by the security forces of several
other countries in their operations, and typically it has been very
successful.

And

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html

Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

I think some people are WAY to trusting of their favorite governments. We need to have A LOT more skepticism or we're going to keep falling for the same OLD tricks. The "stupid" and "tin foil" comments are uncalled for, IMO.

 

[Tez3]

What if "Hamas" is a psyop designed to provoke war with Iran? Have governments ever pretended to be their own enemies and attack themselves in order to provoke a wider war, one that would be unpopular with the people unless a "greater threat" materializes?

Are you going to highjack this thread as well with your conspiracy theories? You're a nice chap but not on the same planet as us sometimes.

 

[Makalakumu]

Are you going to highjack this thread as well with your conspiracy theories? You're a nice chap but not on the same planet as us sometimes.

I won't hijack the thread, but I just wanted to point something out. I don't actually know what is going on and I don't think I'll ever be privy to the real info. Also, I think an amount of skepticism with this situation is completely warented. Governments play their citizens as dupes all of the time and Israel has done so with Hamas in the past.

If any specific information comes to light in regards to this situation, I'll post it.

 

[Tez3]

I won't hijack the thread, but I just wanted to point something out. I don't actually know what is going on and I don't think I'll ever be privy to the real info. Also, I think an amount of skepticism with this situation is completely warented. Governments play their citizens as dupes all of the time and Israel has done so with Hamas in the past.

If any specific information comes to light in regards to this situation, I'll post it.

So you are saying that Hamas is actually an Israeli run organisation designed to garner what exactly? You know you come up with some really sick thoughts sometimes. You really think that Jews would come up with a sick plan to kill other Jews and blame it on the Arabs? You're right, you know nothing, as if there aren't enough Arabs trying to kill Jews you want there to be Jews killing Jews too.


>shakes head in disbelief<

 

[CanuckMA]

You truly don't understand Israel and Israelis. Canadians play hockey, Americans play football, Israelis hold elections. Since it's inception, there has never been a majority government in Israel. Criticizing the government is an art. No government would survive what you accuse them of. Even more so when the majority of Israelis between 18 and 51 are either active duty or reserve. It is a country more than any other who does not want a war. War is devastating to Israel's economy, beyond the actual costs, there is the tremendous loss of productivity as the reserves are mobilized.

May I suggest you educate yourself before spouting off.

 

[Makalakumu]

So you are saying that Hamas is actually an Israeli run organisation designed to garner what exactly? You know you come up with some really sick thoughts sometimes. You really think that Jews would come up with a sick plan to kill other Jews and blame it on the Arabs? You're right, you know nothing, as if there aren't enough Arabs trying to kill Jews you want there to be Jews killing Jews too.


>shakes head in disbelief<

This is beyond naive. All governments are capable of sacrificing it's own citizens for the greater good.

 

[Makalakumu]

You truly don't understand Israel and Israelis. Canadians play hockey, Americans play football, Israelis hold elections. Since it's inception, there has never been a majority government in Israel. Criticizing the government is an art. No government would survive what you accuse them of. Even more so when the majority of Israelis between 18 and 51 are either active duty or reserve. It is a country more than any other who does not want a war. War is devastating to Israel's economy, beyond the actual costs, there is the tremendous loss of productivity as the reserves are mobilized.

May I suggest you educate yourself before spouting off.

I think you have way too much faith in government and way too little understanding of propaganda. That's intentional, btw.

 

[CanuckMA]

This is beyond naive. All governments are capable of sacrificing it's own citizens for the greater good.

Then you truly don't understand the Israeli mindset.

What could possibly make you even think that israel wants a war with Iran, which would have a great possibility to engulfing the entire region?

If you want a glimpse at what the Israeli government will do for it's citizens, look no further than what they gave up for Gilat Shalit.

 

[CanuckMA]

I think you have way too much faith in government and way too little understanding of propaganda. That's intentional, btw.

Considering my background, I have very good understanding what propaganda can do.