My definition of ‘groin’ = A roughly 4 inch diameter circle centered around the space between your legs, below the bladder, external genetalia included, if applicable.
My definition of ‘bending over’ = body positioning somewhere between this --> |, and this --> __, close to this --> \. Think of an American football player in a huddle. Knees slightly bent, hands resting on mid thigh, body position close to 45 degrees.
The reaction I suspect you call “bending over” is actually a bodily reaction to external stimuli.
Uh, I thought thatÂ’s what was being discussed, the bodily reaction to being kicked in the groin (being kicked as the external stimuli).
Kicking underneath between the legs in the “anatomical groin” causes the legs to retract or buckle vertically, as the back straightens somewhat with the chin up. What I believe most consider “bending over” is a secondary reaction, after the fact. Kind of like people who said they “saw” an auto accident. But in reality they “heard” the crash, and turned there head and witnessed the cars immediately after the crash.
But I can hear a crash and then turn to see the car careen into the barrier and/or roll down the street, I might not have seen the initial impact, but I can still see the ‘rest of the crash.’ You say it as if the initial rise and drop happens and then the guy sits there for five minutes before the ‘secondary reaction.’ If the rise, drop, and bending takes place in a quarter of a second, why bother separating them?
Driving the hips rearward is not “bending over” and the individual is not “bending” at the waist, and in fact will take at least one step (probably more) rearward to compensate for the loss of balance caused by the hip displacement, and would eventually be in a different place and body posture position than when struck directly between the legs upward.
Okay, letÂ’s take this in the form of techniques. In Gripping Talon you get to the last portion of the base technique. From a left rear crossover you use the right leg to buckle the opponentÂ’s leg as you strike to the back of the neck/head. The personÂ’s body goes from (roughly) Fig. A to Fig. B.
.......O
......................O (Head)<-- Force
.......|
.........................\
.......|
..........................\
.......|
...........................\
.......|
............................\
.......|
.............................\
.......|
..............................\
.......|
............Force -->
......\ (Leg)
Fig. A
...........................Fig. B
So by using two opposing forces you make the person bend, or otherwise fall over.
Delayed Sword Thread Now, in this thread you state that a front snap kick to the groin will not cause a person to bend over at the waist (remember my definition for this term, so we can communicate clearly)
From Delayed Sword Thread...
The initial reaction to most strikes is well defined in human anatomy by method and manner of execution and specific targets. A front "ball kick" I presume in your method of executing the technique attacks the testicles. The reaction initially will be more of a "squatting action" dropping the buttocks with the back straight and chin up
I agree that a front kick from underneath, or a scoop kick as I know itÂ’s termed, will cause the person to rise up and then squat down.
However, a front kick that snaps horizontally, force on the horizontal plane, will cause a person to bend at the waist. I speak again of the Gripping Talon example. Slide that picture up the body, so the force is now against the groin.
.......O
......................O (Head)<-- Force (Momentum of Attacker)
.......|
.........................\
.......|
..........................\
.......|
...........................\
.......|
............................\
.......|
.............................\
.......|
..............................\
.......|
............Force -->
......\ (Groin)
Fig. A
...........................Fig. B
This simple diagram shows that the person will bend over (according to my definition). They may settle back a step or two, but that doesn’t mean they won’t still be bent over. Their torso won’t bend from the opposition of forces, before they step back, straighten up, squat down with knees bent, then ‘bend over’ again as your secondary reaction says they do.
But, if what you say is the ‘correct’ or common reaction then the techniques within EPAK that base strikes off of this principle (hitting the groin bends the person at the waist) are incorrect, and thus Mr. Parker was incorrect in creating the techs as set forth.
IÂ’m still confused in how you see this.
Joel
