One too many

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
32,817
Reaction score
7,472
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
I think it was suggested that I make a choice today.

My Sanda teacher was talking about Taiji, Xingyi and Sanda and basically it came down to I have done Taiji for so long I likely have no problem continuing it with Sanda but I am, for all intensive purposes, new to Xingyi (again) and he does not see how I can dedicate the needed time to Sanda and Xingyi and maintain taiji and do qigong (that I do) too. He said Xingyi is a beautiful style that is very power full and very good at fighting but it takes a lot of training and he just did not see how I could do it all.

Basically it comes down to take some time off and think about it. If I stay with Xingyi he has no problem with it but does not think I can still train Sanda. If I stop Xingyi we will continue on with higher levels of Sanda; application, fighting and qinna.

And I was afraid to let my Taiji Sifu know I was training Sanda. Both of these teachers are form China and very traditional in their thinking about martial arts. Although my taiji Sifu tries to convince many he is not, I have had multiple conversations with him that tell me he is very traditional in his thinking as it applies to CMA. And my Sanda Sifu although very much in the 21st century is very much traditional in his CMA thinking and makes no attempts to make you think otherwise. The only non-Chinese teach I have is Xingyi and he knows I train Taiji but not that I train Sanda, but to be honest I doubt he would have a problem with it. Now I have in my opinion 3 excellent teachers but apparently I have 1 to many. And 3 styles I absolutely enjoy but again 1 to many.

I will add he did say that he thought that anyone could gain form training all 3 a different view of fighting and health and all were good to know, he just did not see how I could be a long time Taiji person and a beginner at Sanda and Xingyi and do any of them justice.

You know I have read about this stuff happening to martial artist in old China but I never thought it would happen to me. Also my wife has time and time again told me this is what Chinese Sifus form the north are like but since I have not run into it (he has said nothing until today) I just thought that was in old China or if I were training on mainland.

And now I think back to when I started at MT I was upset with my long time Yang style Sifu and I had NO other teachers around to go to as far as I knew and now I have 1 to many..how things change is such a short time.

So any thoughts on this would be much appreciated, since apparently I have to make a choice.
 

clfsean

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
3,668
Reaction score
359
Location
Metropolitan Tokyo
Do what feels good but you're gonna get sanda & qinna in both taiji & xingyi. Maybe not to the degree that the sanda guy does, but you will.

It's kinda like taking karate, aikido & kickboxing... why? The first two provide the skills that allow the thrid develop naturally & without being forced.

None the less... go with what feels good. Also... get a Southern CMA sifu... hehehhe ;-)
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
14,706
Reaction score
4,237
Location
San Francisco
I don't know what to suggest. You are truly cursed, my friend
icon12.gif
 

JBrainard

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
17
Location
Portland, Oregon
Do what feels good but you're gonna get sanda & qinna in both taiji & xingyi. Maybe not to the degree that the sanda guy does, but you will.

It's kinda like taking karate, aikido & kickboxing... why? The first two provide the skills that allow the thrid develop naturally & without being forced.

If I am understanding correctly, I agree. Whichever two arts complement each other the most should be the ones you take.
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
338
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Sir you must do what feels right to you and hopefully your instructor will agree with your decission.
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
450
Location
Winnipeg MB
Well, do as you please, not as your instructor pleases. You are doing this for you, not for him.

Personally I don't see how studying other things as well could interfer with your pursuit of one art. Generally I think that is a problem when a instructor tells you not to train in other things in order to advance.
 

jdinca

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
11
Location
SF Bay Area
I do agree with your instructors. I'm not sure how possible it is to get the full benefit when you're concentrating on three different styles at a time. As for which one you drop, it's going to be a matter of which two provide the most of what you're looking for. A very individual decision.
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,517
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Personally I think every teacher owes it to his/her students to let them be exposed to other martial styles. It may initially slow a student down but in the long run the benefits are extraordinary!

I think you should study with both teachers and if one forces a choice? Well I would go with the other. However that is just me. To territorial for my liking.
 

zDom

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
3,081
Reaction score
107
Not long after I started hapkido (about yellow belt), my HKD instructor suggested I drop taekwondo (I was about orange belt, I think) and just train hapkido.

I said, "Why? I like them BOTH!"

He said eventually it would become too much for me.

While I pulled it off pretty well for awhile, in time I discovered he was right.

When I was a red belt (il gup) in TKD, I "took a break" from HKD at blue belt so I could concentrate on my upcoming TKD first dan test.

It really was just too much to train and keep sharp.

Eventually (after getting a 2nd dan in TKD) I returned to HKD, but had no illusions about being able to do TKD, too. I "retired" from TKD so I could focus on HKD.

Maybe without a job and family I might be able to do both, but the truth is I think I need the recovery time between HKD workouts, as they are very intense.

Being mortal sucks.

Anyway, I hope your Sifu's advice is a recommendation and not a mandate.

It should be YOUR decision.

But your sifu might be right; mine was. (Although I have no regrets taking the path I took. My only regret is not being ABLE to do both arts simulataneously at the level I'm at now in both arts).
 

rutherford

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
13
Location
Vermont, USA
Just think what he'd said when you were still doing Wing Chun.

What is the likelihood that your Xingyi sifu will change his class times again and you'll be unable to keep going?

Your Xingyi sifu has you sparring and your Sanda sifu has you beating trees. The choice would be obvious for me.

But, there's only one style. Yours.
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
32,817
Reaction score
7,472
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Do what feels good but you're gonna get sanda & qinna in both taiji & xingyi. Maybe not to the degree that the sanda guy does, but you will.

It's kinda like taking karate, aikido & kickboxing... why? The first two provide the skills that allow the thrid develop naturally & without being forced.

None the less... go with what feels good. Also... get a Southern CMA sifu... hehehhe ;-)

thanks and that is true both Taiji and xingyi have qinna and sanda. But this is the police/military version of sanda not the sports version but still you are right. And I have a Sifu from the south already my Taiji Sifu is technically form the south,, and I am not ready to tell him abuot Sanda yet either, he know about Xingyi and all it has seemed to do so far is give him a reason to tell me "Ok if you can stand in Santi for 20 minutes you can stand in single whip for 20 minutes too".

I don't know what to suggest. You are truly cursed, my friend

Yeah I know, why couldn't this have happend 12 years ago I had ALL sorts of time 12 years ago.


If I am understanding correctly, I agree. Whichever two arts complement each other the most should be the ones you take.

Amazingly I see connection between xingyi and sanda and just between taiji and sanda as well as some between taiji and xingyi. So they all kind of compliment one another to be honest, just in different ways

Sir you must do what feels right to you and hopefully your instructor will agree with your decission.

He has already said that Xingyi is a good art so I do not think he will have a problem if I choose xingyi, his main concern is how am I going to maintain it all plus wife kids work family. He is also a personal friend and I am beginning to think he is also afraid I am over doing it a bit.

Well, do as you please, not as your instructor pleases. You are doing this for you, not for him.

Personally I don't see how studying other things as well could interfer with your pursuit of one art. Generally I think that is a problem when a instructor tells you not to train in other things in order to advance.

Thank You but I do not think he feels they will conflict, as a matter of fact he said they could compliment each other but it is the stage that I am at in Xingyi and the stage I am at in Sanda. He also said, and I forgot to post, that it does not take long to learn sanda once you start. Could be he is saying take a break form xingyi and go back later. But then maybe he is saying if you want to learn sanda from me you need to focus on it now, I am not 100% sure there.

I do agree with your instructors. I'm not sure how possible it is to get the full benefit when you're concentrating on three different styles at a time. As for which one you drop, it's going to be a matter of which two provide the most of what you're looking for. A very individual decision.

True, as I feared actually. I have time to think I do not have to tell him tomorrow. he said take a couple months to think about it. But we still meet to discuss CMA and other things in life.

Personally I think every teacher owes it to his/her students to let them be exposed to other martial styles. It may initially slow a student down but in the long run the benefits are extraordinary!

I think you should study with both teachers and if one forces a choice? Well I would go with the other. However that is just me. To territorial for my liking.

I don't think he would disagree with you, which is what make this a hard decision. I do believe he feels that I need to focus on Sanda now if I want to progress. He has no problem with Taiji since I have been doing it for so long and I am guessing he would have no problem with Xingyi if I had been training it since the first time I started it, But I had a long break in between and I am starting Xingyi all over again basically, its a blast but so is sanda.

He did say it can be a good thing to study all 3 styles because they all would give you a different perspective on health maintenance and fighting.

Not long after I started hapkido (about yellow belt), my HKD instructor suggested I drop taekwondo (I was about orange belt, I think) and just train hapkido.

I said, "Why? I like them BOTH!"

He said eventually it would become too much for me.

While I pulled it off pretty well for awhile, in time I discovered he was right.

When I was a red belt (il gup) in TKD, I "took a break" from HKD at blue belt so I could concentrate on my upcoming TKD first dan test.

It really was just too much to train and keep sharp.

Eventually (after getting a 2nd dan in TKD) I returned to HKD, but had no illusions about being able to do TKD, too. I "retired" from TKD so I could focus on HKD.

Maybe without a job and family I might be able to do both, but the truth is I think I need the recovery time between HKD workouts, as they are very intense.

Being mortal sucks.

Anyway, I hope your Sifu's advice is a recommendation and not a mandate.

It should be YOUR decision.

But your sifu might be right; mine was. (Although I have no regrets taking the path I took. My only regret is not being ABLE to do both arts simulataneously at the level I'm at now in both arts).

I'M MORTAL... DAMN... I wish you told me that before :uhyeah: I know it does suck

Thanks Z and it sounded more like a recommendation than a mandate but he did say if I go with Xingyi he did not see how I could do justice to all CMA styles I do. He did not say quit Xingyi or quit Sanda make a choice. Like I said above he is also a personal friend and I am beginning to see he may be looking out for me. This all started when we were discussing my recent shoulder pull. Which I just realized the timing of this discussion. But I am guessing that if I do not stop Xingyi (at least for now) I will not be doing Sanda.

Just think what he'd said when you were still doing Wing Chun.

What is the likelihood that your Xingyi sifu will change his class times again and you'll be unable to keep going?

Your Xingyi sifu has you sparring and your Sanda sifu has you beating trees. The choice would be obvious for me.

But, there's only one style. Yours.

No we are not going to tell him about the short lived stint back to Wing Chun now are we. :uhohh:

My Xingyi Sifu has me sparing and it is a blast but the last class he was talking about a possible schedule change again so this may solve itself. But should I decide to go Sanda I will be starting sparing with my Sifu, and likely starting physical therapy shortly thereafter, but that is just part of the territory. Besides this hitting trees stuff is addictive.

:asian:

Thanks and I do appreciate the responses and I would appreciate more. It is helping me figure this out as I respond. It is also helping me get a different and needed perspective on this.

The problem is my gut is currently telling me one thing and my head another. I also have to admit I have been trying to figure out how to fit this all in along with work and family
 

charyuop

Black Belt
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
659
Reaction score
14
Location
Ponca City, Oklahoma
I think the real problem is that both Arts are new to you. When you start a new Art the main target is not only learning techniques, but train muscle to a certain response to attacks. Since Tai Chi is not new to you there is no problem there, your muscles already know their job.
The problem is when you start 2 new Arts together. Muscles have an inner fight on which response to have, thus you will tend to use always your brain before the so called instinctive response. My opinion, no matter what the Sifu told you, is to start with one of the two arts and go on with it for at least a couple of years, then if you are still interested start the other one.
Which one? Well sorry XS, but that is too personal of a choice to suggest you.
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
32,817
Reaction score
7,472
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Thanks for all the responses

When I made my first post it was approximately 20 minutes after I was told about the need to make a choice and I was still in a bit of mild shock. And was not considering the other things that I should be taking into account, nor was I really taking into account what my Sanda Sifu was saying.

He is offering me inside student status and I know he teaches few and from what I gather so far has offers this to none. But that last part is speculation on my part based on our previous conversations.

My Xingyi Sifu I have no doubt will teach me all that he knows or close to it and he is very skilled and I have a lot to learn. However there is a cultural difference between the two my Sanda Sifu is from China and trained in China and my Xingyi Sifu is from the US and has, like my Sanda Sifu, trained his whole life (not all in Xingyi however but his Xingyi is very very good). Both are incredibly talented martial artists and I can see this is going to come down to having to make a choice that I feel is best for my development as a CMA practitioner and my plans for my future n CMA.

I have also had a few conversations with my Xingyi Sifu and there is no doubt he is a fighter at heart and trains Xingyi with a whole lot of realism. And he appears to be driving me a little harder than the rest of the class and being a (as I was called thanks exile) a Martial arts house-o-pain maniac, I kind of like the push I get in Xingyi.

My Taiji Sifu is also hinting at elevated standing in my training and has been showing me stuff he has not shown others in class, or me in the 12 years I have been training with him. But to be honest Taiji is not part of this decision, Taiji stays.

The decision is between Xingyi and Sanda and as I said I have been wondering for a little while now how to fit all that I need to train, so I do not feel my Sanda Sifu is wrong, I just hate to admit I cant handle all 3 now that I am OLD and have more responsibilities.

If I base this purely on money the decision is easy, Xingyi cost considerably more than Sanda, even though Sanda is done as private lessons. Not that Xingyi is all that expensive, from what I gather from reading some of the posts on MT my Xingyi class is rather cheap by comparison.

If I look at it from other perspectives;
- which will train me harder or be more painful? I feel that they are dead even there.
- Which will be more useful quicker? likely Sanda.
- Which will be more effective? good question and that depends fully on me and my ability.
- Which will be more beneficial, talking health, in the look run, likely Xingyi (but I do Taiji and qigong so that offsets this a bit)
- Which hits harder? likely Xingyi.
- Which has more qinna? definitely Sanda.
- Which compliments Taiji more? Honestly dont know, originally I thought Xingyi but lately due to a few training changes in Sanda, I am not sure
- Which hits more trees? SANDA!!! :) (sorry I was getting to serious and just had to throw that in)

What I am sure of is that Xingyi and Sanda compliment each other quite well but being a beginner at both at the same time is not easy.

So basically I am still confused. I suppose I could talk with my Taiji Sifu and see what he says, but then I may run smack into that traditional CMA Sifu way of thinking again and he may say quit Sanda if you want to continue Taiji. I dont think I need that right now. So I dont think Im going there.

I have great respect for my Sanda Sifu both as a Martial artists and a person and even if I decide to go with Xingyi we will still meet to talk and have lunch from time to time, heck we did before I knoew he did Sanda.

And a day later I am fairly certain he is also concerned that I am over doing it in the martial arts area of my life. And he may be right, but being a certifiable Martial arts house-o-pain maniac it s hard to admit that to myself.

And I am having a real hard time not typing My 3 Sifus now there would be a TV reality show I would watch.
 
Top