Just when you think you got it figured out...

[Xue Sheng]

My constantly changing views on training seem to be settling down a bit.

As I sit here typing with pulled muscles in my shoulder (unrelated to training and much related to shoveling snow) I think I realized that my recent change back to one of my older workout routines that included weights was not a good idea. Not because I can’t do it right now but I am beginning to honestly believe that if you practice an internal martial art like Taiji or Xingyi it is counter productive. It puts to much reliance on muscular strength instead of internal, proper form and timing (to put it into more modern terminology than yi, qi, li). If I did not pull the muscle I would never have stopped to think about this so from that perspective it is not such a bad thing I guess (of course having an in house TCM OMD helps too)

2 weeks ago I felt that maybe since I had been doing Taiji for so long I should stop for awhile and work on Xingyi and sanda and then last week my Taiji Sifu goes and says “if you continue training with my you will be 6th generation” and proceeds to show me stuff he has not shown anybody in class. I hesitate to think what I think he meant. He said this after class while we were talking about push hands.

I have been wrestling with this training issue for sometime now and I have wondered if any or all of the CMA styles I train (3) might be interfering with each other and at times over the last couple of months it seemed like they did. But after much thinking although I do see some pretty interesting differences between Xingyi and Taiji as it applies to both training and fighting I honestly do not think they interfere with one another as much as they inhance each other. As for Sanda, I found I approach it more as an internal style, although it isn’t, and it works for me. And my Sanda sifu does not seem to mind. It is very big on strength training but it is all body weight stuff and so far it seems to help more than hurt the other 2 styles. And the stance training of Xingyi and Taiji enhance the sanda.

This is an ongoing process and I am constantly thinking about this and it does change my approach from time to time, sometimes drastically like I said I added weights back in and just removed them again. But I think I am getting closer to figuring this out, as it applies to the arts I train.

They are all Chinese (and that does help) so there are similarities 2 are internal and 1 comes form a combination of multiple styles and some of those are internal. I have no idea how this would work if I was training 3 styles form very different origins but I can at least get my brain around this if they are of at least similar origin with some shared philosophical background.

I have a whole lot of questions I would like to ask here, but at the moment I am not exactly sure how and in some cases what to ask.

I will ask does this sound familiar to anyone else?

As I figure how to ask these questions I am sure I will post them.

 

[matt.m]

You know I, am not sure of training cirriculums of the CMAs at all. However, I find doing Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do concurrently is a good thing. Especially now since my kicking is out of action for a while. There is so much about hapkido that I can still train in and do even though MSK:HKD is all about its dynamic kicking.

However, what it sounds to me is that you may be in a state of over training. I don't necessarily mean you are doing too much in MA practicing. No, you may be doing too much extra cirricular outside of MA class as well. I don't know what the right answer is.

 

[charyuop]

2 weeks ago I felt that maybe since I had been doing Taiji for so long I should stop for awhile and work on Xingyi and sanda and then last week my Taiji Sifu goes and says “if you continue training with my you will be 6th generation” and proceeds to show me stuff he has not shown anybody in class. I hesitate to think what I think he meant. He said this after class while we were talking about push hands.

Well, sometimes Oriental people get to be kinda mysterious/mystical when they speak. However, if what I understood is correct you should feel very honored. I assume your Sifu sees in you a good Martial Artist and a good person in which he can entrust his knowledge and thus have someone good to carry on the Art to future generations.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Well, sometimes Oriental people get to be kinda mysterious/mystical when they speak. However, if what I understood is correct you should feel very honored. I assume your Sifu sees in you a good Martial Artist and a good person in which he can entrust his knowledge and thus have someone good to carry on the Art to future generations.

I agree, and I understand your hesitation to think what you think he meant. But I do think that's what he meant.

From what I know of you Xue, you are very observant and sensitive to your training. You are dedicated and take it very seriously. I know you go through times of conflict and confusion in wanting to do the right thing in regards to training, but you are good at hashing things out and, I believe, making the right choices. Keep the questions coming, ask yourself what your motivation is for training each style and what your ultimate training goals are. Good luck my friend. :asian:

**edit**
Oh! And FWIW, I think it's a good idea you stopped the weight training.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You know I, am not sure of training cirriculums of the CMAs at all. However, I find doing Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do concurrently is a good thing. Especially now since my kicking is out of action for a while. There is so much about hapkido that I can still train in and do even though MSK:HKD is all about its dynamic kicking.

However, what it sounds to me is that you may be in a state of over training. I don't necessarily mean you are doing too much in MA practicing. No, you may be doing too much extra cirricular outside of MA class as well. I don't know what the right answer is.

You are likely right and I greatly appreciate the answer. And I am taking a lot out of the training right now, if for no other reason lack of time, but there are other reasons too. Thanks Matt

Well, sometimes Oriental people get to be kinda mysterious/mystical when they speak. However, if what I understood is correct you should feel very honored. I assume your Sifu sees in you a good Martial Artist and a good person in which he can entrust his knowledge and thus have someone good to carry on the Art to future generations.

Well that is exactly what I am trying not to think. I am a simple martial artist in my mind and I would like to keep it that way, if I actually let myself think that it is likely I will mess up big time.

Thanks, I do truly appreciate what you are saying here, again thank you.

I agree, and I understand your hesitation to think what you think he meant. But I do think that's what he meant.

Thanks, see above reply

From what I know of you Xue, you are very observant and sensitive to your training. You are dedicated and take it very seriously. I know you go through times of conflict and confusion in wanting to do the right thing in regards to training, but you are good at hashing things out and, I believe, making the right choices. Keep the questions coming, ask yourself what your motivation is for training each style and what your ultimate training goals are. Good luck my friend.

**edit**
Oh! And FWIW, I think it's a good idea you stopped the weight training.

Thanks and consider the weights removed form the training.

I am in the process of actually writing down everything I am trying to fit in here and to be honest I do not have the time anymore. What I did was roll back my training to what I was doing over 12 years ago and at that time I was not married and had no children, so it was easier, Not to mention I was 12 years younger and being closer to 50 that 40 it is something I really need to start taking into consideration.

Just as a note:
There are some big difference between training CMA internal styles and CMA external styles. If you go back a few years if an Internal CMA Sifu found out you were training an external style you would be given 2 choices, quit the other style of stop coming to train. I do not think it is that extreme in my case, however I do feel that if I were to go start training Shuaijiao or hard core Shaolin it would be a major conflict in training styles and philosophies, but the differences between Taiji and Xingyi are not that great and throw in Sanda, well it can be that great a difference but my Sifu is apparently not pushing the issue, he does not seem to have a problem with what I am doing and as I said I am approaching it as more of an internal. Although when I train with him I do exactly as I am told so that could be a reason to. But with that said I have not told my Taiji Sifu I am training Sanda either.

A question; Do you feel it is possible to train a style that uses attack as defense such as Xingyi and a style that uses mainly defense such as Taiji and a style that uses well both I guess such as Sanda and be able to actually learn and understand them from both the fighting and philosophical points of view?

Note: Sanda depends more on muscular strength for proper execution than does Taiji or Xingyi.

 

[Carol]

Hitting trees during a NY winter would take some of the energy out of me, too.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hitting trees during a NY winter would take some of the energy out of me, too.

Hitting the trees that is not so much of a problem it is the show shoeing and shoveling to reach them.

I got 3 feet of the stuff now where a week ago I had none

 

[Steel Tiger]

A question; Do you feel it is possible to train a style that uses attack as defense such as Xingyi and a style that uses mainly defense such as Taiji and a style that uses well both I guess such as Sanda and be able to actually learn and understand them from both the fighting and philosophical points of view?

Note: Sanda depends more on muscular strength for proper execution than does Taiji or Xingyi.

I have always thought of Xingyi, Bagua and Taiji as three aspects of the same thing. Though I personally don't do this I can see them as flowing one into the other. Xingyi with its linear, aggressive shape leads into Bagua with its circular, deceptive motion leads into Taiji which takes the nature of the other two and blends them into an harmonious form.

With a strong base in the nei jia I think it is possible to approach any CMA from an internal perspective. Remember that the Shaolin school also includes strange esoteric styles like Buddha Palm and King Kong Palm (gotta love that name, though it has nothing to do with monkeys) which have strong internal aspects to them.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have always thought of Xingyi, Bagua and Taiji as three aspects of the same thing. Though I personally don't do this I can see them as flowing one into the other. Xingyi with its linear, aggressive shape leads into Bagua with its circular, deceptive motion leads into Taiji which takes the nature of the other two and blends them into an harmonious form.

With a strong base in the nei jia I think it is possible to approach any CMA from an internal perspective. Remember that the Shaolin school also includes strange esoteric styles like Buddha Palm and King Kong Palm (gotta love that name, though it has nothing to do with monkeys) which have strong internal aspects to them.

Thanks, actually I did not think of that, although one would think I would have.

But I will blame it on the fact that I do not do Bagua. :uhyeah:

That helps, thanks