Why would you

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
337
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Here is the scenerio,

You are looking for a school for you and the family, you walk in and see this overwieght instructor not out of shape but overwieght, you talk to him and get all the info. and stay and watch a class and you are absolutely amazed about the way the class is ran, all the kids are doing what is ask of them and are being polite. Then you stay to see the advance belts and are even more amazed at the quality of there workout, so you stay another hour to watch the adult class it is a bit slower but still the workout is great.

You also find out that all but two instructor are in the mid to late 40 or older and this is a major concern for you.

You go back and talk again with the head instructor and enjoy the converstation and he gives you pricing like this, 6 days a week $75.00 a month, 3 days only $50.00 a month you reply well that is cheaper than everybody how come and you are given that you try and keep your pricing down so everyone will be able to offord classes.


Then out of the blue you say to the instructor one of these phases.

A) I would train with you but I just can't get by that you are overwieght, therefor I will be training at studio B even though they are a lesser school

B) I like what you have to offer but since you are less expenses I would probaly get better instruction from the higher price school

C) All of your instructor are kinda old so I would be better off with the younger instructor.


Please explain which one would be your answer and if not any of them what other choices do you have
 

Ceicei

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
85
Location
Utah
Here is the scenerio,

You are looking for a school for you and the family, you walk in and see this overwieght instructor not out of shape but overwieght, you talk to him and get all the info. and stay and watch a class and you are absolutely amazed about the way the class is ran, all the kids are doing what is ask of them and are being polite. Then you stay to see the advance belts and are even more amazed at the quality of there workout, so you stay another hour to watch the adult class it is a bit slower but still the workout is great.
Since the quality of their workout is "very good and I'm amazed", then my impression of this school is good.
You also find out that all but two instructor are in the mid to late 40 or older and this is a major concern for you.
Why would this be a major concern for me? Considering I am 40 and studying martial arts, age is the least of my concerns as long as the quality of the class is "amazing to me" and classes are well run.
You go back and talk again with the head instructor and enjoy the converstation and he gives you pricing like this, 6 days a week $75.00 a month, 3 days only $50.00 a month you reply well that is cheaper than everybody how come and you are given that you try and keep your pricing down so everyone will be able to offord classes.
Pricing sounds reasonable. If they're able to conduct amazing and well-run classes, then I have no objection.
Then out of the blue you say to the instructor one of these phases.

A) I would train with you but I just can't get by that you are overwieght, therefor I will be training at studio B even though they are a lesser school

B) I like what you have to offer but since you are less expenses I would probaly get better instruction from the higher price school

C) All of your instructor are kinda old so I would be better off with the younger instructor.


Please explain which one would be your answer and if not any of them what other choices do you have

Most of my questions are not "out of the blue". If I always say things that are on my mind without carefully considering the ramifications, then I'd be in trouble long ago with the "foot-in-mouth" disease! :) Besides, these questions are kinda rude when phrased that way....

I have no way of knowing if the overweight instructors may have some physical issues that I am unaware. Age is a factor that cannot be controlled. Sometimes an older instructor may be a better instructor than a younger, more flashy instructor because of experience. Younger instructors do have a place--they need the opportunity to teach, and may have the endurance to continue with children's and youth classes (especially if they teach several classes in a row). If my overall impression was good to start with and the only so-called objection is weight and age, then my concerns aren't really serious enough to be a barrier. If these concerns were enough to make me take second thought (as stated in the original post with the supposed scenario), then perhaps I'm being too shallow to realize the reality of life that each person has to face.

- Ceicei
 

FearlessFreep

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
3,088
Reaction score
96
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
Not to answer the question but here is something my instructor mentioned a few weeks ago.

He said when he was looking for places to train he finally stopped looking at the instructors and instead started to look at the students. If the instructor is great, then that means he trains well. If the students look good, then that means that the instructor teaches well. If the instructor is too good, it could be that they are training a lot, taking time away from teaching.

I mean, are you hiring a martial arts hitman, or a teacher? There are a lot of great people who can't teach.
 

Shaderon

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
1,524
Reaction score
4
Location
Cheshire, England
Terry I'm with them *points upwards* I wouldn't say no based on the reasons you said, I'd look at the students and the prices and the quality of training. If I liked the school I'd say yes.

I'd be interested in your reasons for asking this?
 

Drac

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
143
Location
Ohio
terryl965 said:
Then out of the blue you say to the instructor one of these phases. I would train with you but I just can't get by that you are overwieght
,

Would you say that to Sammo Hung?????
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
448
Location
Winnipeg MB
A) I would train with you but I just can't get by that you are overwieght, therefor I will be training at studio B even though they are a lesser school

This sort of depends on what role the instructor puts himself in. If he is just there to teach, it might not be a terrible concern. Many coaches in other sports are not in great shape, but then again Martial arts instructors tend to feel the need to project a image of being better then there students, which coaches in other sports don't.

I would consider it a downside though, this is a fitness field. I wouldn't want a personal trainer that was out of shape, or a Doctor that smoked, drank and had a double Big Mac for lunch everyday.

B) I like what you have to offer but since you are less expenses I would probaly get better instruction from the higher price school

Yes, the old perfume buying principle. If it is cheap, it's not worth buying. Slap a different label on it and triple the price, exact same perfume will sell better.

People are weird some times.

C) All of your instructor are kinda old so I would be better off with the younger instructor.

Some people are old, even if not chronologically, but they are old. Some people have had a lot of birthdays, but are still young. While Physical age shouldn't matter much, a persons personality does. If someone wants a "younger", in spirit, instructor with a more energetic approach, I wouldn't hold that against them.

On the other hand, in martial arts, its generally the young instructors that get age held against them. Too much "Mr. Miyagi" image as the ideal instructor.

Schools with 16-17 year old instructorsa are often called McDojo's and what not. Yet, how old is the average swimming instructor? most are 16-18, and yet kids still learn to swim.

Back in school, I remember always learning more from the younger teachers. There where exceptions on both sides of course, Older ones that still where passionate about what they where doing, and younger ones that had made a poor career choice. Again, this kind of turned into a younger personality though.

But if a person was impressed by a class, then the class most be doing something they like. But it depends on why they where impressed, was it because the class looked fun and enjoyable, yet informative? Or where they impressed in the same way you might be impressed by a military drill squad's discipline, but have no desire to go through the training to get there yourself?
 
OP
terryl965

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
337
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Terry I'm with them *points upwards* I wouldn't say no based on the reasons you said, I'd look at the students and the prices and the quality of training. If I liked the school I'd say yes.

I'd be interested in your reasons for asking this?

i have been a school owner for years teaching for over thirty and have heard it all and was wondering if this is the norm, or is it just in my area that this happens.
Yes I'm overwieght and yes I have been told this by alot of people but really had no bearing on the scenrio just out of curiousty. That is all, converstation and trying to understand perseption from students.
 

CoryKS

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
4,403
Reaction score
182
Location
Olathe, KS
My answer would be D) Where do I sign?

Seriously. Good instruction at good prices, with instructors who have been doing it for a long time. Am I missing something?

And the weight issue for me is not really a factor. My take on the martial arts as a newbie was that the knowledge base is supposed to offset physical characteristics - knowing where to strike or bend what and in what direction means you don't need to brute force the opponent. We have some larger folk in my school, and the only mystery to me is how they keep it on doing the stuff we do.

People are funny.
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
Those people are what is called a "knuckle head". I'd say something else, but I fear the mods (lol)
icon10.gif
 

Kacey

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
16,462
Reaction score
224
Location
Denver, CO
Too many people see "overweight" and assume "incapable" despite any and all of the evidence to the contrary. As people age, then tend to gain weight more easily; they are also more likely to have injuries that affect their ability to maintain their fitness. The senior master instructor in our association is overweight - but that's due largely to knee injuries sustained in the armed forces that caught up with him and reduced his ability to sustain long-term activity of the sort needed to keep weight off as he aged. In no way does it detract from his ability to instruct - and he teaches an incredibly intense class.

If the person who is checking the class asks any of the questions above, discuss with them the reason(s) the instructor may be overweight that may be public knowledge (ignore any that are not) and if that doesn't convince them - then let 'em go; they're not going to make a good student for that particular student at this point in their own lives, because they are allowing a single factor - and one that is pretty minor in the overall scheme of things - to override all of the other factors that can show quality of instruction.
 

Drac

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
143
Location
Ohio
Too many people see "overweight" and assume "incapable" despite any and all of the evidence to the contrary. As people age, then tend to gain weight more easily

Amen Sister amen...
 

Blindside

Grandmaster
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
5,126
Reaction score
800
Location
Kennewick, WA
Alot of schools promote martial arts to "get in shape" or "fitness," and if that was the case, then seeing an overweight instructor appears pretty contradictory to me.

Lamont
 

Shotochem

Purple Belt
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Messages
312
Reaction score
4
Location
MA
Aw Terry, A few pounds overweight is nothing. I've trained with many people who were big and heavy who could run circles around the 20yr olds. As long as you are no Obese and sucking wind every 2 min. I would say sign me up where you are.

I'm getting close to that big 40 and have a bit of a gut myself. Don't be so self conscious, anyone who knows anything about MA would not underestimate someone like you.

It's not the age its the mileage,

-Marc-
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
448
Location
Winnipeg MB
Too many people see "overweight" and assume "incapable" despite any and all of the evidence to the contrary.

Depends on motivation I suppose.

As I said, I wouldn't be able to fault a family for using this as criteria, if part of what they are looking for is a fit, healthy role model for there children, then fitness and appearance of fitness might be important.

If they where looking for a "good Christian school", then I imagine having a atheist head instructor might be a deciding factor, despite having nothing at all to do with martial arts.

Some might even go gender based, if a parent was looking for a strong female leader to teach there daughter, thats there choice as well.

When you join a club, you are not just selecting a style and training methods, you are selecting a instructor, not just on there technical merits all the time, but on the things that matter to you beyond that.

Would you take classes from someone that was a ex-con? Perhaps for something major? They've done there time, and are free and clear according to the legal system, would that be a issue? It's got nothing to do with there ability to teach martial arts?

Or how about this case: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/6404229.stm
4-year old pictures, that where done in her spare time, and people are making a big stink about it. Does it in any way effect her skills as a teacher? No, but apparently it is a big issue for some.
 

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
730
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
You also find out that all but two instructor are in the mid to late 40 or older and this is a major concern for you
All of your instructor are kinda old so I would be better off with the younger instructor.
they would still be children to me and I an learn from children if they are have knowledge
I like what you have to offer but since you are less expenses I would probaly get better instruction from the higher price school
my ansewere then would be "OH you wanted the better (higher) grade of class. We have that but the price is 150 a month and we only offer it to those that want the best"
 

kidswarrior

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
2,697
Reaction score
151
Location
California
My answer would be D) Where do I sign?

Seriously. Good instruction at good prices, with instructors who have been doing it for a long time. Am I missing something?

People are funny.

Right on, Cory. And I hear you Terryl. As a professional (day job) teacher, have likewise heard it all.
 

Touch Of Death

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 6, 2003
Messages
11,610
Reaction score
844
Location
Spokane Valley WA
Here is the scenerio,

You are looking for a school for you and the family, you walk in and see this overwieght instructor not out of shape but overwieght, you talk to him and get all the info. and stay and watch a class and you are absolutely amazed about the way the class is ran, all the kids are doing what is ask of them and are being polite. Then you stay to see the advance belts and are even more amazed at the quality of there workout, so you stay another hour to watch the adult class it is a bit slower but still the workout is great.

You also find out that all but two instructor are in the mid to late 40 or older and this is a major concern for you.

You go back and talk again with the head instructor and enjoy the converstation and he gives you pricing like this, 6 days a week $75.00 a month, 3 days only $50.00 a month you reply well that is cheaper than everybody how come and you are given that you try and keep your pricing down so everyone will be able to offord classes.


Then out of the blue you say to the instructor one of these phases.

A) I would train with you but I just can't get by that you are overwieght, therefor I will be training at studio B even though they are a lesser school

B) I like what you have to offer but since you are less expenses I would probaly get better instruction from the higher price school

C) All of your instructor are kinda old so I would be better off with the younger instructor.


Please explain which one would be your answer and if not any of them what other choices do you have
Information has no health issues. Its either what you want or what you don't want. I wouldn't worry about the instructors eating habbits, glandular problems, or what have you. You are there to learn the art. Do you like what you see or do you not like what you see.
Sean
 

morph4me

Goin' with the flow
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
6,779
Reaction score
122
Location
Ossining , NY
When I visit schools, I pay very little attention to the instructors,as I assume they know what they are doing, until they prove me wrong. I focus on the students, and when I give advice on people who are interested in the arts and are visiting schools I tell them to do the same thing. I want to see how the students act towards each other and the instructor, how they perform, and how many are sitting out with injuries, and base my opinion of the instructor on that.

I guess it all depends one what you're looking for. You can always let one of your young black belts teach them privately for triple the cost of a regular class if that would make them happy. tell them it's an elite class for the most discerning students. :uhyeah:
 

jdinca

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
11
Location
SF Bay Area
None of the above. Sounds like a great school, where do I sign?

As for the age of the instructors, our average instructors age is probably now in the late 30's, early 40's. The school has never run so smooth...
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,516
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Terry keep on doing what you do and take no notice if someone wants to go somewhere else. Always seek to improve your teaching, training and your individual goals. In doing so those that train with you will continually benefit.
icon14.gif


One of my instructors is a mountain of a man and would be considered large by even NFL linemen. However, anyone who knew how he moved would want nothing to do with him or would want him at your back if things went south. Size can be perceived in many ways and should not be perceived so narrowly. If someone chooses to do this then that is their choice to live that way. For myself I want to meet and know someone's spirit. Only then do I have a chance to know what they are like!
icon10.gif
 
Top