Obligations

[Jenna]

But see, I believe the arts are worth very much more than the market would ever bear to charge, as they were when my teachers taught me.

That is SO well put my friend I know my earliest instructor would have taught for free. Your point has made me think that by his willingness to do this he was actually saying, Jenna, if I charged you an equitable rate for my tuition and the handing on of nearly 50 years of expertise, you would never have be able to afford it. I find I am all choked up thinking bout that..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[harlan]

Thank you for the replies. I was curious if those with more experience ever found themselves in the position of doing things out of a sense of obligation...as a recipient of training. A simple example is testing. I've read here, and elsewhere, that folks often have no interest in testing...but do so because their teachers are pushing them. Another mundane example might be attending class when one would rather kick back and watch the tube with the family that night. Or attend tournements and seminars, or visit other schools for a demo...out of a sense of obligation.

And then, of course, there is the obligation to pass along what one has learned at some point.

 

[MJS]

Simple question: how much does the sense of obligation determine your attendance/training?

IMO, if there isn't some obligation to show up to train, then you're pretty much throwing your money away. Sure, there are some things that take more of a priority than training, but training still needs to fit in somewhere. For example...I can't control when I get stuck working an extra shift. So, if that shift falls during a time when I'd normally be training, I have to chose work over training. My obligation is to work in that case.

 

[tshadowchaser]

In the beginning I felt no obligation except to make sure I got my moneys worth out of the classes. I paid and I was darn well going to be there.
As I matured in the arts and gained some rank I was also given some responsibilities, then I started to feel I should be there to fulfill those responsibilities. Did I feel obligated, YES and NO, because I knew someone else could and would do the job if I where not there.
As an head instructor I feel it is my responsibility to be there as often as possible. Yes I do have someone who can and will take over the classes if I am not present. Maybe I just want to oversee everything but I do feel that my input is important to the class and I do feel an obligation to be there.

 

[kidswarrior]

IMO, if there isn't some obligation to show up to train, then you're pretty much throwing your money away. Sure, there are some things that take more of a priority than training, but training still needs to fit in somewhere. For example...I can't control when I get stuck working an extra shift. So, if that shift falls during a time when I'd normally be training, I have to chose work over training. My obligation is to work in that case.

A fair point, Mike. Of course, any responsible person is going to put work above hobby, as you said. I guess my 'bone to pick' is with whether someone feels compelled to go, because they're paying money so they're *owed* something and go out of obligation to balance the scales, or impelled to go, because they love the Art and so train out of passion.

Makes me think of the many stories we've all heard of old masters who would wait--sometimes years--to take a student into the inner circle, waiting to see if the student was in it for what they could get, or was truly passionate about learning.

 

[Drac]

I try to attend EVERY class...The work schedule gets in the way too many times, and to put it simply sometimes I'm just too tired to attend..

 

[Phoenix44]

I've been attending the same classes for years, and I feel a responsibility to show up. My instructor and my fellow students expect me to be there. And sometimes I feel a sense of responsibility to my family or to myself to do something else that evening or to just relax.

But when it gets to be purely a sense of obligation, I hope I have the courage to quit.

 

[pesilat]

I've been attending the same classes for years, and I feel a responsibility to show up. My instructor and my fellow students expect me to be there. And sometimes I feel a sense of responsibility to my family or to myself to do something else that evening or to just relax.

But when it gets to be purely a sense of obligation, I hope I have the courage to quit.

Interesting take on the terminology. Technically, responsibility & obligation are synonyms but your distinction is interesting and I understand what you mean.

Personally, while I do feel a certain responsibility (using your distinctions in the terms) toward my students I don't feel that I have to be there (which is, I think, the distinction you're making between the two terms).

Mike

 

[Sukerkin]

I wonder if perhaps we're not dealing with slightly different interpretations of the word here?

To me "obligation" is not synonymous with an unwelcome burden or something that is necessarily irksome.

It might be something that requires something of me or causes me to put anothers interests before my own but there can be pleasure in that, a sense of reward that is moral rather than empirically measurable.

Self discipline and duty are positive traits and when I say that obligation plays a role in anything I do I mean that it requires that I fufil my given word and carry out my part of a bargain (or more).

EDIT: Ah, I see that Pesilat beat me to it with the concept of interpretation .

 

[shihansmurf]

Hey Mark I think you are exactly right insofar as this is how martial arts tuition is conducted these days and but I think it is a shame. You have implied a certain aloofness there or dispassion?? Akin to a professional business relationship.
Jenna

Hi. I have to respectfully disagree on the part about it being a shame. Well, maybe no disagree as much as clarify. "I'll explain. No wait, there is no time. I'll sum up."

My remarks pretained to how I view the teaching relationship with adults. I think that, were I to teach childeren, I would have a more "traditional" view of the teacher/student obligatory bond. I think that anyone that is placed in a position of trust or authority over a child has an obligation to behave in a manner befiting a good role model, as would any other coach of a childerens sport.

With adults it isn't so clear. See, I am 33 years old. I have a family, I'm college educated, and I have been in the Army for 9 years. My personality, beliefs, and values are pretty well set. At this point in my life I don't need a coach to help mold me into a adult, to help develop as a person, or to teach me life lessons. In fact, I'm not sure I would be willing to put a lot of credibility is someones opinion on any of the subjects based solely on the fact that they are a martial arts instructor. So, for me, it becomes a basic transactional relationship. I want the knowlege that the instructor possess. He wants my cash. We trade.

Given time I may develop personal fondness for a given instructor. At that point I would incur the nromal obligations that I have with any of my friends, thus changing the dynamic.

I seem to have drifted from the topic of the thread.

When I taught I did develop a compassion for students that was of itself a certain binding to me.

Did you develop compassion or fondness because they became your friends or because you were their teacher? I certainly like most of the people that I have trained, with a few exceptions. With all of them,however, I was professional. No matter what else we are all participants in the same hobby so we all have that commen ground. A sense of duty or professionalism is the mark of a good teacher and if you felt yourself bound to them than that speaks well of you.

I learned that often students come and go.Impart what you can while their with you, teach them to the best of your ability, impart your knowlege freely, and protect their safety in the training enviornment. If you do all that you will have met any obligation we incur as instructors. Anything beyond that and you begin entering into other sorts of relationships with your students, noth that that is a bad thing, I just think that it is important to note the demarcation.

Admittedly, the fact that I am a soldier and most of my relationshipsare, by neccessity (I'm sure I misspelled that) temporary colors my view on this topic so take the above with as many grains of salt as needed.
Mark

P.S. My boxing coach provided my with some of the most efffective training that I ever had and there was no sense of obligation that extended outside of the gym.