J
jbclinic
Guest
so if a ma creates a school, lets say hypothectically self protection school, he becomes a grand master then teaches what he knows and promotes /presents aperson with a 1st that goes?
"Now I am the master!"
- Thread starter mrhnau
- Start date
jbclinic said:
Why would he become a GrandMaster?? If he/she chooses to open a school, they should do so at the rank they are, not some inflated rank. They promote people as far as they can.
Mike
That seems a reasonable thing to do; but, not everyone abides by that rule, do they? Some people seem to modify an art ever so slightly in order to call themselves a 'founder' and, hence, Grandmaster, right?
OnlyAnEgg said:
Please, lets not turn this thread into another Super Ultra Grandmaster Soke debate. We have more than our share of those debates on here already.
To answer your question though, yes, people do that all the time. But why? I don't seem to understand what the big deal is? Do people honestly think that they're going to suddenly, overnight become a better MA just because they self promoted themselves from 3 stripes to 10?
MJS said:
No. I did not intend to turn it into anything other than it is. My question is from deep in my naivete, right where the cynicism is starting to taint it. I understand that people do that; but, just because I support Windows PCs at work, I'm not Bill Gates.
I suppose some people only see the surface of things. I don't feel that MA is about becoming Grandmaster of anything. It's a new way of life, to my mind; it's not a means to an end.
In our western civilazation people see what they want to see, I'll use me as a great example, I'm 45 and have been studying for over 40 years there is another school down the street does the same exact thing as a matter of fact he moved to be next to me and he is 24, a prospect came in and said the other school promise he son would be a BB in a little over a year and ask me how long at my school my reply was I do not know it is up to your son, then she says well he is the same ramk as you so what is the different and my response was I have over forty years in the Arts and her reply was but same rank same knowledge. You see this other guy let say he started in his teen years say 11 the most he could have by know is 13 years of training in which 7-8 years was as a child what real life training and maturity does he have none but those stripes on the belt means he is equal to me with over forty year, in there eye's yes being naive about MA is the western way.
I know a lot off topic so I'll worn myself get back on topic, so I will.
Terry
I know a lot off topic so I'll worn myself get back on topic, so I will.
Terry
Brother John
Senior Master
Here's my thought:OnlyAnEgg said:
People can do what they want with "rank". It really doesn't matter to me, because I can do whatever I want with my opinion of them. One of the finest martial arts instructors I ever had was a 2nd Dan. Not impressive if all you want to do is look at his belt. BUT: If you watched him enjoy and express his art, if you could watch him down through time CONSISTENTLY demanding excellence from himself and encouraging the same from others at every turn, if you could see him show up at the gym Very early and leave very late...
then all of a sudden, that belt is just a nice adornment; but it's drapped across the waist of one of the best martial artists I know! ....what do you think MY subjective sense of his "rank" is??
Master.
But he's a second Dan, and 110% satisfied with that. THAT'S HIS BUSINESS.
Rank is nothing more nor less than a subjective guestimation tool...
little more.
Let people do what they wish with rank...
Me?
I'll watch them WORK, then I'll know them.
Your Brother
John
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Brother John said:
You are completely correct about this, but you are also educated about the subject, where the general public is not. Your opinion actually means something here, where the general public's opinion does not. the general public is easily mislead.
Flying Crane said:
Yup. The "same rank ==> same level of knowledge/skill" fallacy is widespread. You can't fight it--that's why so many people inflate their ranks, like adding a bogus master's degree to their resume. They see it as competition in the marketplace, knowing how people view things.
OnlyAnEgg said:
All the time. I think it's more ego than marketing, though. It's self-gratifying to bet the "best" at something, and one assumes it entails great respect.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
OnlyAnEgg said:
Yes, and some people modify it even more, and mix elements of a few different systems together and then call it a new system for which they get to be the Grandmaster and founder. I still don't think this is anything new that they have done. Simply re-packaging a few things that already exist is not a new breakthru. Why not just acknowlege that what is being taught and practiced is primarily X system, with elements of Y, Z, and A, B, and C systems mixed in to supplement? Be honest about the depth of your training in each system, including the rank that you actually earned. Honesty can be a wonderful thing, and it can lift a lot of pressure off your shoulders when you no longer find yourself trying to justify the facade that you have built.
Brother John
Senior Master
Really, that's an excellent point F.C., the belts are often used as marketing aimed at the uninformed....sometimes even those that SHOULD know the difference don't.Flying Crane said:
BUT: I think that that's only "initially". The real quality, the real 'spirit in the Dojo' comes through and people can tell the difference. Not all, but many will see through the fluffed up stripes on the belt, but the Real quality of a good instructor will stand out..... even if it's not backed up by lots of stripes.
....but your point is very valid. When looking for a martial arts school, many check what they Think they can trust as credentials...such as those stripes. It's a very real consideration for the 'full time' instructors, the rest of us don't need to be AS concerned with it I think.
Unfortunate for those pro-teachers though!
Your Brother
John
