"Now I am the master!"

[chinto01]

John please do not take offense to my post. It was just a general observation. All to often someone brings uo their lineage and people are qucik to discredit them. I just did not want to see that happen here.

in the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[terryl965]

I do like what flying cane has said and you bet Brother John is in thinking mood, then we all better hide under the table.
Terry

 

[Brother John]

John please do not take offense to my post. It was just a general observation. All to often someone brings uo their lineage and people are qucik to discredit them. I just did not want to see that happen here.

in the spirit of bushido!

Rob

hey....no offense taken man. Seriously.
I get where you were coming from.

have a good one.....

Your Brother
John

 

[MJS]

All of the schools that I've know, a 1st degree BB would only be able to take someone to the rank of Brown. Anything else, would require someone at least 2 ranks above the rank being tested for.

Mike

 

[Flying Crane]

I like your views on this FC. I really think you may have struck on something there. Why the 'degrees'?? Do we really need more carrots dangled in order to keep moving forward? Do we need to have more degrees than a thermometer to show that we know what we are talking about???
hmmm........

now you've really got me thinking.
and that can be hazardous...


Your Brother
John

aaaahhh, i am gathering converts to my way!! soon, I will have an army of goons at my beck and call, and I WILL BE THE REAL MASTER - oops, did I say that part out loud...?

seriously, tho, take a look at this thread: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28023

Scroll down a bit on this thread. Someone recently posted Ed Parker's blackbelt certificate from William Chow. Just says blackbelt, and says he is authorized to be a teacher. nothing about conditions, or degrees, or none of that.

 

[Flying Crane]

Brother John,

Ya gotta watch Bladerunner, and you will know where the avatar came from. it's LEON!!

Thanks, man.

Michael

 

[rutherford]

Two things need cleared up.

1. All rank comes from Soke. If you do not have a certificate from Japan, you have no rank. Ed Martin, like any instructor, can only recommend people be promoted to 4th Dan.

2. Rank does not in any way correspond to a hierarchical authority structure or denote a specific level of skill.

For 5th Dan the rank requirements are clear. It is only at this point you can apply to Soke for an instructors license (we'll ignore associate instructors for simplicity's sake). Many people run excellent training groups long before they reach this rank. (Conversely, some people never become instructors but continue to gain rank.)

Soke gives out rank when, if, and as he pleases.

Check out Dale's F.A.Q. for a bit more info:

http://www.bujinkansf.org/faq/#ranks

 

[Flying Crane]

Two things need cleared up.

1. All rank comes from Soke. If you do not have a certificate from Japan, you have no rank. Ed Martin, like any instructor, can only recommend people be promoted to 4th Dan.

2. Rank does not in any way correspond to a hierarchical authority structure or denote a specific level of skill.

For 5th Dan the rank requirements are clear. It is only at this point you can apply to Soke for an instructors license (we'll ignore associate instructors for simplicity's sake). Many people run excellent training groups long before they reach this rank.

Otherwise, Soke gives out rank when, if, and as he pleases.

Check out Dale's F.A.Q. for a bit more info:

http://www.bujinkansf.org/faq/#ranks

I understand that this system comes from Soke, and it is somewhat different from how many of the other systems do it. I think that this is why you may be in the unfortunate position of defending it from others, from time to time. It is different from the more established norms, so it invites scrutiny and criticism. Many people will have a negative gut-reaction to the notion of a bunch of 15th Dans walking around.

Those who are in the system understand it, those who are not in the system can become educated to better understand it than we do, but I suspect you will have to work to actively educate people who may otherwise offer a lot of ridicule. I am not trying to pass judgement, just making an observation.

 

[rutherford]

Eh, I couldn't care less.

There's no need to defend another person's rank for them. It's a very personal matter between that person and the person who delivered it. Nobody else matters.

And I have no idea what was in Soke's mind when he gave out the rank. Perhaps it is simply enough rope for the person to hang themself.

 

[MSUTKD]

Only in America. 15th Dan? What a joke.

ron

 

[Flying Crane]

Eh, I couldn't care less.

There's no need to defend another person's rank for them. It's a very personal matter between that person and the person who delivered it. Nobody else matters.

And I have no idea what was in Soke's mind when he gave out the rank. Perhaps it is simply enough rope for the person to hang themself.

hey, fair enough.

 

[Flying Crane]

Only in America. 15th Dan? What a joke.

ron

actually, this one comes from Japan...

 

[Blindside]

To me it doesn't sound like a big deal. If the new 1st feels he is still a student, then he is, if he feels he is a peer of the instructor then that will change the relationship. I would pay class fees to the guy who organizes and runs the school, it is his time and effort that go into it, he gets the reward. The new 1st should be able to make income off of privates, and maybe takes a portion of class profits if he acts as a regular co-instructor in the studio, but that is for the two instructors to figure out.

Don't sweat it, the two of them will have to figure out how their relationship is impacted by the new belt, odds are it won't be impacted much unless the newbie shodan lets it go to his head.

Lamont

 

[arnisador]

actually, this one comes from Japan...

Yes, the 15th dan is a Japanese invention...as the first 10 were!

 

[mrhnau]

Yes, the 15th dan is a Japanese invention...as the first 10 were!

It gives a nice metric I suppose... personally, I don't care too much. I'd be content with student/teacher/master... that would be sufficient for me

MrH

 

[rutherford]

It gives a nice metric I suppose...
MrH

What, exactly, do you think it measures?

 

[Brother John]

What, exactly, do you think it measures?

don't know about him, but I'd think it'd 'measure' your instructors opinion of you.
...and little else.


Your Brother
John

 

[Phoenix44]

Of course, the whole concept of rank is relative. There are exceptions, like aikido, TKD, where there are standards, but otherwise, how can you compare? Some schools call you shodan after 3 years, nidan after 5, sandan after 8. My school has shodan who've been training for 10 years or more.

Bottom line? If you've been training hard for 10 years, you have more experience than someone who's been training for 3, no matter what you call them.

:idunno:

 

[MJS]

IMHO, when I'm looking at a teacher, I'm looking more at what he/she has to offer me, rather than how many stripes are on the belt! The stripes are not what's teaching me, its the instructor!! What kind of skill do they have? How well do they know the material? How well can they apply that material? How well can they translate that material to students? Those are the qualities I look at.

Mike

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I look for simplistic, cult-like worship. Having donned a belt of pure thread-spun gold, I require my students to address me as, "Lord-God King BuFu", under threat of boredom and damnation.

Just my humble, enlightened, purely deific and correct opinion,

Dave...aka, "LGKB"
:bow: