legacymaa

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On Testing and Students

I often get asked, as a martial arts instructor how long someone spends at a certain rank. You see, for students working their way through the Kyu/Gup (Colored Belt) ranks, we traditionally test the student when we feel they are both mentally and physically ready. So, while a parent may feel that their child has spent a sufficient amount of time at a certain rank, there is really no set in stone time period and it is largely the prerogative of the instructor as to when the student tests for their next rank. This is why I do not discuss rank or promotion with parents under any circumstances. I clearly state the expectations for each rank on this website and in the school itself. Each student is pre-tested if they are eligible to test (I also have a strict policy that a student may not test for a promotion test if they participated in the test immediately preceding the one in question) and if they demonstrate adequate proficiency, they will be invited to test. End of story.

You see, I have always been a strong advocate against the 7-10 year old Black Belt. Not based on age, but simply based on a level of maturity and time spent training. In fact, over a decade and a half into my training and I still feel like I am earning my black belt with each class I teach.

The moral of the story? Good things come to those who wait. Tang Soo Do isn't about blasting through to the finish line and wrapping a 2" wide piece of black cotton around your waist. Believe me, it's not that glamorous. If a black belt is your goal, you can pick one up for about six dollars on Amazon.com and call it a day. Now, if you are interested in a real journey where you will learn more about yourself than you ever imagined possible, I implore you to come in, try a class, and brace yourself for the ride. It's a roller coaster journey and I can guarantee you'll love every bit of the grind.

Battling the Bought Dan Ranks: Paper Hanger Syndrome

I just discussed how elusive the "minimum time in grade" for students can be. It all depends on how hard they are willing to work and their behavior in and out of the class. Now for the teachers. Believe it or not, we are still learning. A LOT. In fact, I have always been of the school of thought that your black belt marks the point where you become a student equipped with all the proper tools to really sink your teeth into the art you're studying.

For Black Belts, there isn't so much gray area with respect to time between ranks. The reason we have fairly rigid time in grade requirements for Yudansha (Black Belts) is to prevent 25 year old "Professor John Doe,Ph.D, Soke and 10th Degree Supreme Dragon Grand Pu-Bah Celestial Master Jedi" from operating a school under VERY false pretenses.


Now for the part that really grinds the gears of many martial artists. When you have worked for a respectable amount of time and have bled, sweated, and yes.. cried for your rank, it can be a bit irksome when certain instructors dilute that rank/achievement by "paper hanging".

One controversial instructor I met along my journey tested for their 1st Dan in 2011, their 2nd Dan in 2012, their 3rd Dan in 2013, and their 4th Dan in 2014. Any martial arts practitioner worth their salt knows that there is a great deal of credential misrepresentation here as it is widely held that the minimum number of time between Dan (Black Belt Level) rankings are equivalent to the degree you are testing for so.. 2 years for 2nd+3 years for 3rd+4 years for 4th=9 years.. More than DOUBLE what was spent "earning" those ranks at the black belt level.

Additionally, the concept of "Honorary Ranks"... Let me grab a ladder so I can climb onto my soap box... Some associations so blatantly overexercise this practice that there become more Honorary Dans or Honorary Masters than actual practitioners of that martial arts system. An example? In one circumstance, Jedi Knight Bobby's organization may promote 10 honorary Yudansha into their ranks and allow them testing privileges within their association. Bobby has attended classes religiously for 7 years to earn his rank of Second Dan and has logged many hours of teaching in his art of Jedi Combat. GrandMaster Yoda, however, decides to promote 10 new Tae Kwon Do practitioners (most of whom have never taken a Jedi Combat class in their life) into their folds and installs some of these inductees at the rank of 4th and 5th Dan as full Jedi Masters. Jedi Knight Bobby is now left feeling dejected and his Jedi Council has now failed to uphold the integrity of the art created by the Jedi of long ago... But I digress.

Now that's neither here nor there, but as martial artists, it is our duty to preserve the integrity of the art we practice. This is not achieved through the pursuit of the next belt, but through the hard work both in and out of the dojang learning both the technical and academic aspects of the arts.

Always yours in the martial arts,

Tang Soo
 

Dirty Dog

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You see, I have always been a strong advocate against the 7-10 year old Black Belt. Not based on age, but simply based on a level of maturity and time spent training. In fact, over a decade and a half into my training and I still feel like I am earning my black belt with each class I teach.

Agreed. We don't do baby black belts. As I have said before, the youngest 1st Dan at our school was 17. An exceptional young lady who had been with us since she was 5-ish.

For Black Belts, there isn't so much gray area with respect to time between ranks. The reason we have fairly rigid time in grade requirements for Yudansha (Black Belts) is to prevent 25 year old "Professor John Doe,Ph.D, Soke and 10th Degree Supreme Dragon Grand Pu-Bah Celestial Master Jedi" from operating a school under VERY false pretenses.

You are really confused if you think time in grade requirements do anything at all to prevent this behavior.

Now for the part that really grinds the gears of many martial artists. When you have worked for a respectable amount of time and have bled, sweated, and yes.. cried for your rank, it can be a bit irksome when certain instructors dilute that rank/achievement by "paper hanging".

Perhaps you place too much importance on the belt around your waist.

One controversial instructor I met along my journey tested for their 1st Dan in 2011, their 2nd Dan in 2012, their 3rd Dan in 2013, and their 4th Dan in 2014. Any martial arts practitioner worth their salt knows that there is a great deal of credential misrepresentation here as it is widely held that the minimum number of time between Dan (Black Belt Level) rankings are equivalent to the degree you are testing for so.. 2 years for 2nd+3 years for 3rd+4 years for 4th=9 years.. More than DOUBLE what was spent "earning" those ranks at the black belt level.

I guess I'm not worth [my] salt then, because I don't really think time in grade requirements serve any real purpose. As guidelines or averages, sure. But they should not be cast in stone. Here's an example. In my current system (Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan) the average to 1st Dan is 6-8 years. I joined the system after a long break from TKD. I was promoted to 1st Dan in a bit under 2 years. Nor did I wait 2 years for 2nd. Etc, etc, etc... Why? Because although there are differences between different styles of TKD, they are relatively minor, and this was, for me, essentially a "do over."
As for how "widely held" your time in grade assumption really is... it's not. The Kukkiwon, which is certainly the largest TKD organization, and arguably the largest certifying MA org of any kind, disagrees. In Korea, 1 year to 1st Dan is accepted as being unremarkable. 1 year 1st to 2nd. 2 years 2nd to 3rd. 3 years 3rd to 4th. A mere 7 years from white belt to 4th Dan. And their rules allow for exceptions. Test today, win a national title tomorrow, and test again the day after. Got a high Dan rank from another org? You can get equivalent rank immediately. Been sitting at your current rank for umpteen years? I only have a KKW 2nd Dan, but by their rules, I could do a skip Dan test and be a legitimate KKW 6th Dan (although the skip Dan rules are being reevaluated right now).

So I don't know anything about this person you're describing, but if his instructors thought he was ready to promote, then good for him.

Out of curiosity, why do you use Chinese rank titles (Sifu...) for a Korean art?
 
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legacymaa

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All wonderful points. And the Sifu title comes from my teacher, himself from Chinese martial arts background.

Your views are both valid and insightful. Now, from what I've seen is I don't so much believe that the whole time in grade is the end all be all, however, what I've seen from this particular gentleman is quite a bit of time in the YouTube dojo and not enough time contributing to the art or his students' education.

Do I believe the Kukkiwon is legit? By gosh, by all means! Now, in this case, you have an association where you have this guy bringing in people with only about 10 years of martial arts total training in a completely different art (let's say Tai Chi) and promoting them (free of charge) to 6th Dan in an art like TKD or TSD while still maintaining super rigid test requirements and high testing fees for due-paying, long-time practitioners of the organization's actual art. It's almost like the members who have been a part of the organization the longest drew a short stick and random folks off the street who shouldn't be teaching the organization's art are now going to be major game changers in that association. Any insight? Thanks for your reply!
 

lklawson

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Want to test? My last two "promotions" were "testing by ambush." I'd been putting it off for I-don't-know-how-many-years, "yes sir, I'm practicing for the test," when I walked into the Dojo and my instructor looked at me and said, "grab an Uke. You're testing."

Talk about stress. :eek:

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Buka

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"Testing by ambush". What a great term.
 
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legacymaa

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Testing by ambush. My goodness. They say a black belt should always be ready and should train each class like it is the real deal. However, if I were in that same situation, you may have to mop a puddle up after all is said and done. ;-)
 

lklawson

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Well, to be fair, it's not common. As far as I know, I'm the ONLY person he's done that too in something like 35 years of his teaching. And I accept that it's my own fault. I kept procrastinating it. Honestly, I just don't care a whole lot about "belt ranks." I've known too many with [fill in the blank] ranking that I thought were clueless idiots and a fair number of people with little to no "rank" who were holy terrors and highly skilled.

I've come to accept that "belts" are sort of required to get along in "traditional" martial arts, but, man I wish that more people realized just how little that bit of cloth actually means, particularly outside of the very narrow focus of that specific art. My dan rankings in one are are meaningless in any other. But the newbies walking through the door to train usually don't understand that. :(

I've got a lot more to go along with that rant, but I think the direction of it should be pretty predictable by now and I don't want to bore you. :cool:

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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