Mother Explains Fatal Pit Bull Mauling

[Cryozombie]

We just had an episode of that in the town my office is located in... a pair of Pitbulls escaped from a fenced in yard and mauled either 6 or 8 people.

 

[Cruentus]

Once again, people who know little about dogs and who can't distingush crap from their *** thinking that breed specific legislation is the answer. The answer is not attempting to force a breed to become extinct, whether through genocide or forced neutering/spaying or otherwise.

The answer is very simple... owners need to be responsible for their dogs by law. So if a dog goes on a mauling spree, the owner faces criminal charges, not just civil suits. These people who are negligent with their dogs get put away, and the people who are not negligent have the rights to own whatever dog they want. Simple solution if you ask me.

As to Dog breeding, I agree with SgtMac on his statement. I'd like to add that most dogs called "pit-bulls" in the media that are in these maulings are not full breed pit bulls from good stock. Often times they are mixed breeds that can have much poorer temperments then a full bred from good stock (lab-pit mixes are common, for example, and are genetically prone to have much poorer temperments then a full bred).

And last thing: Todd, I think that you need to actually read a book on pit bulls that reviews the breed objectively before you make comments on the subject.

Paul

 

[Cruentus]

I am going to rehash this thread because I came accross this movie that I thought was very good and that I think that some of you should take a look:

http://www.americanpitbullterrier.org/pitbull_content.html

BTW...my dog will be 8 months this week, and is exceling in obedience at the moment. I am very proud of him... at some point when I have time to spar, which is less and less lately, I'll post pics....

Paul

 

[Touch Of Death]

That woman should get the death penalty.
Sean

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I am going to rehash this thread because I came accross this movie that I thought was very good and that I think that some of you should take a look:

http://www.americanpitbullterrier.org/pitbull_content.html

BTW...my dog will be 8 months this week, and is exceling in obedience at the moment. I am very proud of him... at some point when I have time to spar, which is less and less lately, I'll post pics....

Paul

Sorry you are so busy, because I always love to read your posts.

If all dog owners were as conscientious as you are, there probably would be far less maulings like this.

 

[Cruentus]

Man....I just reread that story. I am shocked and even pissed as to how irresponsable that owner was on so many levels.

Something about training dogs to anyone interested:

Something I wanted to mention is that lack of proper training for working animals is also a major problem. There are too many "armchair" trainers out there who watch the "dog whisperer" and think that they are going to be the next Ceasar Milan with there working dog. They try to use read about or watched methods based on research that asserts the owner as the "Alpha" dog, and instills a "pack mentality" among a household. This requires the humans of the house to be "more dominant" then the dog.

This is not only ridicules, but unreliable for a working breed and can be detrimental to the development of the dog or the safety of the household. Dogs have been domesticated for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Being compliant to humans is instilled in their genetics. Instilling a pack mentality based off dominance is MOVING BACKWARDS, in my opinion. Dogs understand one thing the best: what benifits them. They do what benefits them. So, if they are trained through positive reinforcement to know that by listening to members of the household, they will get the best benefits, then it builds off the domesticated side of the dog produces a well trained and safe animal that doesn't rely on "dominence."

"Pack mentality" training works to a degree because when dogs run in a pack, by obeying the "dominate" pack member, they get the best benefits, ie what is best for them. HOWEVER, the problems with this can be huge. Dogs in a pack are ALWAYS trying to get a better position in the pack. There are no equals in a pack, one dog is always above another. Position is gauged by who is most dominant, and dominance is determined by fear and intimidation. If you are going with the theory that you are the "dominant" owner, then you have to ALWAYS BE DOMINANT with your dog, and you have to train your animal with the use of fear and intimidation rather then positive reinforcement. If you or another family member shows weakness around a working breed, your likely to lose your dominant position. This means that with a kid in the house, you could have a working breed see the kid as a subordinant with drastic results. When you hear of dogs "turning" on their owners, it is usally a case of a dog challenging the owner for the dominant position because the owner showed weakness of some kind. What a crappy way to run your household, and not very loving of an environment that I would envision I would want my dog to be in, if you ask me.

Anyways, I am sure that there is a lot more then bad training going on in the household of the mentioned story, considering that pure bred American Pit Bull Terriers are far less likely to maul someone then other working breeds (the pics of the dog that I saw lead me to believe that these weren't pure bred animals, btw). Usually, there is something else going on that the media fails to catch...

Paul

 

[SAVAGE]

Mom should be locked in a basement with her two dogs with a raw steak tied aroungd her throat!

This sort of thing makes me mad!

 

[Bigshadow]

I am going to rehash this thread because I came accross this movie that I thought was very good and that I think that some of you should take a look:

http://www.americanpitbullterrier.org/pitbull_content.html

BTW...my dog will be 8 months this week, and is exceling in obedience at the moment. I am very proud of him... at some point when I have time to spar, which is less and less lately, I'll post pics....

Paul

That was a great flash video! I have always thought that people made them that way. I agree with you on that.

As for the woman, in the original post, she is a horrible parent and most likely a horrible pet owner.

 

[White Fox]

I hear this all the time Pit Bulls are living weapons. But hey that world is filled with many daft people.

 

[theletch1]

I hear this all the time Pit Bulls are living weapons. But hey that world is filled with many daft people.

Trouble is that it has become something of a status symbol (at least around here) to have a pit that HAS BEEN TRAINED to be dangerous for certain groups. As long as this particular fad exists then pits will have the rep that they have. I remember when Dobermans were the four legged weapon of choice and before that the German shephard.

 

[DeLamar.J]

I just read this on Yahoo! myself. I don't know what to say. It wasn't her son's time to go...she made a stupid decision and he paid for it. I hope they find some way to prosecute her--just a suspended sentence, maybe, but something that clearly says "You were wrong."

How about letting a pit bull go at her for a few minnutes. Locking someone in a cell for a period of time, and then considering a wrong done right is stupid. 3 hots and a cot for a year and everythings ok, thats bull.
The punishment is supposed to fit the crime, but all the punishment ever is, is confinement, or death. Why no inbetween? Confinement does not fit the crime. Letting a pit bull go after her for a few minnutes is a punishment that fits the crime.
There also is a deeper subject in this issue, and that is the issue of people having children. I dont think that having a child should be a right. There are way to many people that are not capable of being responsible parents, and the innocent child pays the price. I think people should have a liscense to have a child. You should be screened, and it should be determined by professionals rather or not you are able to support the child. Your income, criminal record, medical history, ect should all come into play. Hell, they test people to get a drivers liscence, isnt bringing an innocent child into the world a more important issue that people should be tested on before they are allowed to do.

 

[MA-Caver]

At first I thought this was a follow up to the initial article/post but turned out to be something different but still related or relevant.

Woman whose dogs mauled neighbor gets 15 to life

By PAUL ELIAS, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080922/ap_on_re_us/fatal_dog_mauling;_ylt=AsucA1zPpt9muiCaSO6kTk5H2ocA
SAN FRANCISCO - A woman whose dogs viciously attacked and killed her neighbor in the hallway of their apartment building seven years ago was sentenced Monday to 15 years to life in prison.

Marjorie Knoller was convicted of second-degree murder in the 2001 mauling death of Dianne Whipple, but a judge later reduced the charge to involuntary manslaughter and sentenced her in 2002 to a four-year prison term.
But the California Supreme Court last year said the trial judge was wrong and sent the case back. Last month, Superior Court Judge Charlotte Woolard reinstated the murder conviction, for which Knoller was sentenced Monday.
The case is the California's first murder conviction connected to a dog mauling, prosecutors say.
The case turned into a tabloid sensation because of the viciousness of the attack — the dogs tore all of Whipple's clothing from her body and left her with more than 70 bites — and the seemingly cavalier attitudes of Knoller and her law partner and husband, Robert Noel, who blamed Whipple for the attack.

Part of me saying that 15 to life is a bit harsh but then again a dog CAN be construed as a "lethal weapon" and while letting a dog like these roam around without supervision is like leaving a loaded gun lying on the coffee table while kids run in and out of the house. Just asking for it.
But this lady apparently doesn't give a damn one way or the other...

In denying Knoller's plea for probation, Woolard noted that Knoller didn't call 911 or otherwise try to help Whipple during the 10-minute attack. The judge said Knoller knew the dogs were dangerous, ignored numerous warnings to train them and hasn't expressed remorse for the attack.
"She has blamed the victim and has held her dogs in higher regard than humans," Woolard said.

I like dogs (and cats) but that's all they are to me... just domesticated animals that can or not be useful in whatever capacity. If a dog crosses the line then they gotta go. Especially when it comes to attacking/killing a human, they're not going to be able to reform. They clearly saw the woman as weak, defenseless and didn't have the reasoning to deny their instincts. The woman doesn't care one way or the other.
I agree with the victim's survivors here:

"It is very hard to find forgiveness for someone who doesn't accept responsibility," Smith said.

Very hard indeed.
Maybe the woman ought to be attacked by her own dogs and see how she feels... "oh they didn't mean it" is what she'll probably say.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Even if every single word she says is the absolute truth, she still deserves to go to prison for a very long time.

Well, she did say,

"It's Nicky's time to go," she said in the interview. "When you're born you're destined to go and this was his time."

Time to go, I guess.

 

[teekin]

At first I thought this was a follow up to the initial article/post but turned out to be something different but still related or relevant.


Part of me saying that 15 to life is a bit harsh but then again a dog CAN be construed as a "lethal weapon" and while letting a dog like these roam around without supervision is like leaving a loaded gun lying on the coffee table while kids run in and out of the house. Just asking for it.
But this lady apparently doesn't give a damn one way or the other...
I like dogs (and cats) but that's all they are to me... just domesticated animals that can or not be useful in whatever capacity. If a dog crosses the line then they gotta go. Especially when it comes to attacking/killing a human, they're not going to be able to reform. They clearly saw the woman as weak, defenseless and didn't have the reasoning to deny their instincts. The woman doesn't care one way or the other.
I agree with the victim's survivors here:
Very hard indeed.
Maybe the woman ought to be attacked by her own dogs and see how she feels... "oh they didn't mean it" is what she'll probably say.

I can pretty much guarentee that those dogs were pushed/encouraged to be aggresive towards humans. The dogs paid with their lives for the woman's pathology. You can do the same thing with a poodle or a Yorkie. The diffrence is a Pittie can kill you right damn quick, a Yorkie takes a bit longer. Can they be turned around? Yup, I've done it and have the scars to prove it. Dogs are not born bad, have you Ever met a bad puppy? Ever?
People **** them up, and the dogs pay with thier lives.
The best possible punishment for psycho-beeyotch is to stay locked up, being told when to get up, what to eat, how to dress, when to exercise and on and on. And keep denying her parole. Off my soap box.:tantrum:
lori

 

[Jade Tigress]

I recall that story being on the news. If I remember correctly she *siced* the dogs on the woman, let them out the apartment into the hall and watched them maul her. That's no dog out of control, that's murder.

 

[Twin Fist]

this story is a true WTF moment in american life.

The whipple case? that dog owner deserves every day she spend behind bars.

 

[girlbug2]

Once again, people who know little about dogs and who can't distingush crap from their *** thinking that breed specific legislation is the answer. The answer is not attempting to force a breed to become extinct, whether through genocide or forced neutering/spaying or otherwise.

The answer is very simple... owners need to be responsible for their dogs by law. So if a dog goes on a mauling spree, the owner faces criminal charges, not just civil suits. These people who are negligent with their dogs get put away, and the people who are not negligent have the rights to own whatever dog they want. Simple solution if you ask me.

As to Dog breeding, I agree with SgtMac on his statement. I'd like to add that most dogs called "pit-bulls" in the media that are in these maulings are not full breed pit bulls from good stock. Often times they are mixed breeds that can have much poorer temperments then a full bred from good stock (lab-pit mixes are common, for example, and are genetically prone to have much poorer temperments then a full bred).

And last thing: Todd, I think that you need to actually read a book on pit bulls that reviews the breed objectively before you make comments on the subject.

Paul

Every thing you have said is, I believe, true. However the one vital piece of information left out is that pit bulls, unlike other powerful breeds, have their origins in specifically being bred to kill not only other animals but human beings for sport. No doubt there are lines that have this viscious streak bred out, but as you have said, the junk breeders far outnumber the responsible breeders. These days, the junk bred dogs are the rule and good citizens like yours are the exception.

So is it any wonder the breed has a bad rep?

No need to call names of anybody who (justifiably) thinks badly of your favorite dog breed. They have good reasons for it.

 

[teekin]

Girlbug, Pits were and are bred to "pit fight" other dogs. They are bred to be DOCILE to humans. The god breeders must be able to handle and condition the dogs, as well as break them apart during a fight without getting mauled. If a dog shows signs of mental instability it is culled ( shot in the head). These are the Real breeders. The Ganstas and waanabe hacks breed the mutts that are taught to attack or beaten into viciousness.
The only dogs that were bred to hunt humans in modern times as far as I know were the South Africans. The Filas. Those will kill you D-E-A-D. Count your lucky stars you have not heard of those yet.
Lori

 

[MA-Caver]

Girlbug, Pits were and are bred to "pit fight" other dogs. They are bred to be DOCILE to humans. The god breeders must be able to handle and condition the dogs, as well as break them apart during a fight without getting mauled. If a dog shows signs of mental instability it is culled ( shot in the head). These are the Real breeders. The Ganstas and waanabe hacks breed the mutts that are taught to attack or beaten into viciousness.
The only dogs that were bred to hunt humans in modern times as far as I know were the South Africans. The Filas. Those will kill you D-E-A-D. Count your lucky stars you have not heard of those yet.
Lori

I've had the misfortune of living in an apartment complex where the balcony over looked the back yards of the houses nearby. I say unfortunate because sometimes the butt-uglies would come out and lay in the sun. But MORE unfortunate and related to this thread was the time I watched two (hispanic) gangstas (they were gangstas because of the gang signs used to greet one another and the colors that were popular in that area) living in one of the houses below ... had a third to come over and tease and whip the malamute that belonged to the gang member's house.
He used a t-shirt with a knot (undoubtedly weighed) and "sneaked over" the fence and attacked the dog with the improvised whip. Kept trying to hit the dog in the head. The dog became more agitated and more vicous but chained up, snapping and snarling horribly at the guy trying to whip it. The "stranger" gang member retreated on cue as the owner of the dog came out of the house shouting. The owner walked up to the dog and praised the animal. Giving it a treat and playing with it. I watched all this from my 2nd floor balcony whilst having a smoke (non-smoking apt.).
Now granted this was a Malamute/Husky breed and not a pit. And the idea was probably training the dog to attack any "unauthorized" persons coming into the yard.
It is the METHOD of the madness in the training of these animals. One would imagine that they use this same method on any type of large dog. This was not a one time training deal either. Several times I heard this training taking place. My room-mate saw it as well, drawn to the sounds of the dog snarling and barking and snapping. HE thought it was cool. I thought it was cruel and un-neccesary increase in the dog's instinctive protectiveness of the pack.
Given the opportunity I'd imagine that the dog would've not just attacked/bitten an intruder but mauled and possibly would've killed an intruder.
I did not call the SPCA or Humane Society on this and wished that I had but at the time the thought hadn't occurred to me.

 

[teekin]

You got it Mr. Caver! Thats just how it's done. Killer there was once a sweet fluffy 8 week old puppy who would lick your face with his warm pink tounge. It tokk time and real effort to turn him into a killer. He will bite and face the horrors of the gas chamber. The gangsta's will get a new puppy and start all over again. Mabbe someone will call the SPCA this time and I'll get my hands on the pooch before he's insane.
(Speaking of insane, Diva, aka Apocalypse Poodle, seems to want out.)
lori