more than one sensei at a dojo?

[ppko]

How about this:
No man can serve two masters.

A dojo or dojang is like a home, with the father and the children. You can no more have two instructors in the same school than you can two fathers in the same house. Only one can be responsible for the upbringing and education of the students. It is possible to have a guest Instructor to learn how to defend against X style, but not two teachers under the same roof full time.

I am going to have to disagree with you here, as long as the arts mesh well with one another and they are taught together than there should be no problem with this situation. It brings a new outlook for the students and will also give them a better chance on the street, ie what sorks for you might not work for all of your students but this guy might have some of the missing pieces.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I have loyalty to my Sensei, and not this new guy. I have learned so much from my Sensei that I respect him and consider him a good friend and teacher.
i'm also not going to call this new guy Sensei, unless my sensei says so....(Hope that wasn't to criptic.)

But I do look forward to working out with this guy and what i can learn from him.

The whole thing where you can't serve two masters, I belive that you serve yourself and all those who serve you. i started martial arts for my health and my well being, i'm going to collage for my well being. but i have great respect for those who helped me on my road to self-improvment, and more times than non, they become treasured friends of mine.

If you trust your Sensei, than there should be no problems. He is initiating this new class for reasons of his own. From what I've read here it seems that your Sensei is fairly secure with it. If he wasn't it is doubtful that he would have invited this other instructor into your school to begin with. Your instructor is offering you an opportunity to broaden your experiences. I see no reason for you to not embrace this learning opportunity. In terms of what protocols to follow with this new instructor I suggest that you ask your Sensei what he would like you to do - follow his lead. :asian:

MJ

 

[MJS]

Soon my school may be getting another instructor, my sensei now is well versed in many arts. the Sensei coming to the school is a grappling instructor. do you guys think its a good idea to have specialized instructors?

Is this grappling inst. going to be teaching his own seperate class or is he going to be assisting your current inst. with classes?

IMO, I see nothing wrong with having a variety of instructors, however, if they are going to be teaching classes, then they should have a solid background in whatever it is that they're going to be teaching.

Mike

 

[Sin]

He'll be asisting and have his own class, it depends on if he can make it or not to the class

 

[RRouuselot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin
Soon my school may be getting another instructor,
1) my sensei now is well versed in many arts.
2) the Sensei coming to the school is a grappling instructor. do you guys think its a good idea to have specialized instructors?


Sin,

I am curious as to why you have not answered my 2 questions......

1) Which arts is he well versed in?
2) Who is he and what art does he teach?

 

[tshadowchaser]

Having two instructors in a school is ok as long as it dose not turn into a power struggle as to whom everyone owes allegiance to or who actually is running things

 

[MichiganTKD]

You can learn various techniques from different black belts, but you can have only one Sensei or Sa Bum Nim. It is my opinion that, since your Instructor's job is to guide you as a martial artist (that Do thing), you can have only one.
You can have several mentors or uncles, but only one father. The mentors can help guide along, but the ultimate guide must be your Instructor. If I feel that your loyalties are divided among several, I cannot have you as a student. There must be trust to your Instructor.
And it is not a cult or slavery, because you can leave anytime. Slaves or cult members cannot leave. This is one of the principles of the Hwa Rang-loyalty to King (or Instructor).

 

[masherdong]

The more, the better. It is good to have a variety of instructor's at the dojo, so that you can take a little from each one and come up with your own style of sparring or techniques.

 

[RRouuselot]

The more, the better. 1) It is good to have a variety of instructor's at the dojo, 2) so that you can take a little from each one and come up with your own style of sparring or techniques.

1) Only if everyone has the same agenda…..which is rarely the case.



2) Yeah…nothing like having someone with little or no experience making up their “own style”. That's all we need is another "McDojo" on the planet.

 

[masherdong]

1) Only if everyone has the same agenda…..which is rarely the case.



2) Yeah…nothing like having someone with little or no experience making up their “own style”.

That's all we need is another "McDojo" on the planet.

That isnt what I meant. I mean to use in tourneys and competitions.

 

[RRouuselot]

That isnt what I meant. I mean to use in tourneys and competitions.

Either way.

Instead of trying to pick up a few “tricks” here and there why not study diligently from one or two good teachers so you actually learn something worth while.

 

[Adept]

he mentors can help guide along, but the ultimate guide must be your Instructor.

You've said this a couple of times now, but haven't gone any further with it. I'd like to know why you feel this way.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Because I believe in the traditional way. The traditional way says that the instructor-student relationship is like the parent-child relationship. By this I mean that my job as instructor is much more than just showing a student techniques. It is to guide the student in their overall development as student and person. That is a primary difference between traditional and mixed martial artists. MMA see their instructor as simply a coach, one who shows them the required techniques to get the job done. In that aspect, you can learn from as many instructors as you want, because all they are doing is coaching in different techniques.
My perception of an instructor is much deeper, as is most traditional stylists. Learning technique is simply the beginning. Your instructor is almost a mother/father figure. How many fathers can you have? One. Many uncles but one father, the person who is responsible for your ultimate growth. Not only do they teach you their technique, but you also grow under their rules and philosophy. MMA undoubtably see this as stifling. Traditionalists see it as providing a firm foundation.

 

[Sam]

Why do you think that you can't learn things from more than one instructor? Why would instructors rarely have the same 'agenda'? Agenda implies that they have a list of things to do for their own motives - all the instructors at my studio have the same objective - teach students and share what they know.
as for "my job as an instructor... is to guide the student in their overall development as student and person"
Yeah, I would agree with that... but if all the instructors are pointing in the same direction, what's the problem? It sounds as if you have had a bad experience with this or something.


oh yeah, and this: "the person who is responsible for your ultimate growth" I think that would ultimately be you (the student). If you think about it, no one can really teach you anything. They can only show you and then you decide if you take that and implement it or disreguard it.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Everyone can teach us something. Having another teacher is good! Since he is specialize in grappling he will be adding news ways for you to learn. Lucky you.
Every year at our at Seminars most of the top rank instructors teach a certain part of the classes and we have many different classes, but each teach a certain way,on the same stuffs. Good to get a different view. ....Aloha

 

[Matt Stone]

I just skimmed through the 30+ posts in this thread, and I was really taken aback at the wannabe kung fu movie attitude some folks want to have...

The "master-student" relationship is not culturally present in the US. The closest comparison we can have to the Asian martial arts master fantasy archetype is the relationship between parent and child. It must be understood that having this kind of relationship with a person that is essentially a stranger is potentially damaging to the student...

Here's the thing of it. The martial arts teacher has absolutely no qualifications whatsoever to be passing on "life guidance" to his/her students. The myth that a martial arts teacher by definition is qualified or capable to guide a student in something other than martial arts training is a bunch of BS.

So for someone to say that the relationship between student and teacher is akin to a parent-child relationship displays a real lack of awareness of the role that different people play, and speaks to a poor decision making process on the part of the person subordinating themselves to the whim and will of some person who teaches others to fight!

It is yet another instance of non-Asians attempting to align themselves with aspects of foreign cultures in an effort to identify with something, to fill a void in their life.

A guy learns to fight from some other guy. That first guy then opens a storefront in a minimall, and attempts to eke out a living by teaching others to fight. Does that person necessarily have any training, education, or qualifications to enable them to counsel one of their fighting students on life issues? Hardly.

There can't be two "sensei" in one dojo. Period. There can be multiple teachers, but they'd better have the same business goals. The maxim that "a man can't have two masters" doesn't mean that you can't have two teachers, it means that you can't devote yourself fully to two separate tasks - one will always suffer.

Wise up, folks. If you are consciously aware of the roleplaying game you are engaging in, fine... At least you are engaging in it purposefully. If you are doing it because you think that is the way things are supposed to be, try to remember you aren't living in the Far East of 100 years ago...

 

[MichiganTKD]

Our organization has periodic seminars. At these seminars, different instructors will present lectures or workshops on different topics. Gup and Dan students from many different branches will attend to learn history, philosophy, technique, etiquette etc. When I am there, I am respected by the students as an instructor, but not as THEIR instructor. I am not responsible for them the way their instructor is. That is one of the definitions of an instructor-the one who is responsible for you. The black belts who learned under me and were recommended to black belt by me I am responsible for. They cannot just go to another instructor and say "please teach me." This is a grave insult.
I am sorry if Matt "Minister of Blades" fails to appreciate this. His attitude just proves my point. MMA do not understand traditional manners and etiquette. It doesn't matter whether Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, Karate, Kung Fu etc.. The principle is the same. A traditional karate instructor will teach the same way.

 

[47MartialMan]

Because I believe in the traditional way. The traditional way says that the instructor-student relationship is like the parent-child relationship. By this I mean that my job as instructor is much more than just showing a student techniques. It is to guide the student in their overall development as student and person. That is a primary difference between traditional and mixed martial artists. MMA see their instructor as simply a coach, one who shows them the required techniques to get the job done. In that aspect, you can learn from as many instructors as you want, because all they are doing is coaching in different techniques.
My perception of an instructor is much deeper, as is most traditional stylists. Learning technique is simply the beginning. Your instructor is almost a mother/father figure. How many fathers can you have? One. Many uncles but one father, the person who is responsible for your ultimate growth. Not only do they teach you their technique, but you also grow under their rules and philosophy. MMA undoubtably see this as stifling. Traditionalists see it as providing a firm foundation.

I agree, but it ashame when the parent charges for this development.

 

[Adept]

The traditional way says that the instructor-student relationship is like the parent-child relationship.

Who said that? And when? And where? And why?

These are important questions. Blind faith in anything, just because you were told to, seems foolish in my opinion.

How many fathers can you have? One.

Define father for me.

I am not responsible for them the way their instructor is. That is one of the definitions of an instructor-the one who is responsible for you.

In what way? Responsible for their martial arts progression? Responsible for their level of skill? Responsible for their behaviour? For making sure they meet their loan repayments?

I think it is the student that is responsible for themselves.

They cannot just go to another instructor and say "please teach me." This is a grave insult.

Their decision to be taught by someone else would be because they feel they can learn more, or better, from someone else. I can see how this would be an insult to a persons skill as an instructor.

 

[MichiganTKD]

It depends on how the payment system is set up. For your monthly dues, you are learning the school's curriculum. However, teaching does not end when class is over. I have had many learning experiences with my instructor away from class in various settings (his office, his home, dinner, other people's homes etc.). What we learn in class is the class curriculum-basics, form, free fighting, some etiquette. That is what you pay per month for.
Outside class, we learn philosophy, TKD politics, how to conduct ourselves, why things in TKD are done the way they are etc. Also, our instructor questions us about how things are going in our lives-school, work, family etc. Those are part of the WAY of TKD. It is part of the growing process as a student and instructor. You cannot put a price on that.