All that is black belt is not truth

Amatsu Tatara

White Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Location
Cascade mountain range Oregon, Amatsu Tatara
In my 40 years in the martial arts I have met many black belts that were good fighters and bad instructors and many that were great instructors and poor fighters, they knew thier principles.
Several times I ran into a particular Sensei who had developed several good solid schools yet claimed to be able to deliver dozens of strikes in one second. So years pass and I move across several states to settle in the Pacific Northwest, I'm alone without a school, student or fellow instructor. Wow there in the phone book is a listing for-----------(the listing is omitted to protect the faker). Great I dial up and am told the instructors name, E-gad it's him, Mr. 12 strikes per second. Now I am informed that he is a black belt in 16 styles. I hang up.
Question;
How can someone with real certifications with real Sensei and a real ability to produce good if not great students and schools be so full of it.
 

Blindside

Grandmaster
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
5,175
Reaction score
849
Location
Kennewick, WA
In my 40 years in the martial arts I have met many black belts that were good fighters and bad instructors and many that were great instructors and poor fighters, they knew thier principles.
Several times I ran into a particular Sensei who had developed several good solid schools yet claimed to be able to deliver dozens of strikes in one second. So years pass and I move across several states to settle in the Pacific Northwest, I'm alone without a school, student or fellow instructor. Wow there in the phone book is a listing for-----------(the listing is omitted to protect the faker). Great I dial up and am told the instructors name, E-gad it's him, Mr. 12 strikes per second. Now I am informed that he is a black belt in 16 styles. I hang up.
Question;
How can someone with real certifications with real Sensei and a real ability to produce good if not great students and schools be so full of it.

I'm pretty certain the guy you are talking about posts on KenpoTalk, maybe you could try posting this there and bringing up the subject in a forum where he could respond.

Lamont
 

theletch1

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
8,073
Reaction score
170
Location
79 Wistful Vista
Because so many people in the states buy into the eastern mysticism of the martial arts world and believe that having a black belt equals being some sort of magical being. Also, when folks are first introduced to the martial arts they don't know good from bad from horrible. All it takes is a modicum of skill, a narcisitic attitude, a little charisma and some papers with lots of kanji on them and the uniformed will follow. Hopefully, those that follow will catch on sooner or later and leave for greener pastures. What you're describing is, unfortunately, not that uncommon. Heck, my first instructor was one for the "Horror stories" forum here. I caught on, looked elsewhere and found both the art and instructor that suit me perfectly. Don't become disheartened with the martial arts or artists in general. Just find some folks in your area to train with and know that you are following the path that suits you best.
 

exile

To him unconquered.
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
10,665
Reaction score
251
Location
Columbus, Ohio
But wait, this actually is a somewhat unusual situation. What we have here, according to what the OP describes, is not a standard faker, but someone who is a very competent trainer of MAists, but who inflates his own reputation by making outrageous claims that you'd think no legitimate expert and successful teacher should need to make. Very strange, I have to say!

I'm afraid I can't answer your question, though I've heard of one or two similar cases. When I hear of such things, I always start from the assumption that instead of being a calculating, cynical charlatan, the instructor in question has... well, has developed a cracked bearing somewhere and lost touch with reality to some extent. In other words, there may be a serious personality problem here rather than an effort to deliberately deceive. But it's hard to say...

MartialTalk has a policy of discouraging `fraudbusting', as you'll have noticed when you read the original Terms of Service, so pursuing this matter more specifically here is definitely not a good idea. But at a more general level, the question `How can it be that a good, competent instructor behaves like a deliberate con artist?' is one that I have no answer for, except the one I mentioned—that you may be looking at some kind of genuine pathology here...
 

Monadnock

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
717
Reaction score
15
Location
Land-of-the-self-proclaimed-10th-Dan's
Never underestimate the power of the almighty dollar.

Even if he is as good as you say, he may have no other way to attract students than to put silly ads in the Yellow Book. Also, think about how many true 'seekers" there are out there vs. the number of people who just want to go out and try the next cool activity. Chances are he's aiming for the latter to fill the wallet quicker.
 

bushidomartialarts

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
2,668
Reaction score
47
Location
Hillsboro, Oregon
I suspect it's the result of a sort of vicious cycle.

You become an instructor. Your students take everything you say as gospel truth. You start to believe your own press. You start making ever increasing claims as to your ability, experience, prowess. Your students take everything you say as gospel truth. You start to believe even that press...and on and on.

On another note, whereabouts in Oregon are ya? We have a great bunch of guys training together out here in Hillsboro. If that's far, it's likely we can help you find a good program near you.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
3,795
Location
Northern VA
In my 40 years in the martial arts I have met many black belts that were good fighters and bad instructors and many that were great instructors and poor fighters, they knew thier principles.
Several times I ran into a particular Sensei who had developed several good solid schools yet claimed to be able to deliver dozens of strikes in one second. So years pass and I move across several states to settle in the Pacific Northwest, I'm alone without a school, student or fellow instructor. Wow there in the phone book is a listing for-----------(the listing is omitted to protect the faker). Great I dial up and am told the instructors name, E-gad it's him, Mr. 12 strikes per second. Now I am informed that he is a black belt in 16 styles. I hang up.
Question;
How can someone with real certifications with real Sensei and a real ability to produce good if not great students and schools be so full of it.
$$$$$$$
That's why...

And that's why I don't ever see myself teaching commercially.
 

shesulsa

Columbia Martial Arts Academy
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
27,182
Reaction score
486
Location
Not BC, Not DC
Admin note:

Thread moved to General Martial Arts Talk. Please start threads in a section you think they would fit according to the forum title and description.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assist. Administrator
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH

thetruth

Black Belt
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
555
Reaction score
10
It's not the guy who advertised in bb mag as the speedman is it??


Cheers
Sam:asian:
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
$$$$$$$
That's why...

And that's why I don't ever see myself teaching commercially.

If you teach commercially and try to teach ethically, keeping costs down etc you will run at a loss trust me! We run 'commerical' classes but frankly it barely covers costs like travelling costs, cleaning materials etc. We have to rely on the MMA shows to make a living.
We could of course have contracts and all that stuff but prefer not to. Means we get pushed out of the market though by the type of club described here. We'll teach you to fight but it won't be the fancy 12 strikes a minute thing.
 

Cirdan

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
2,494
Reaction score
441
Location
Oslo, Norway
Hard work, sweat and pain don`t sell.
Sensationalism, quick black belts and mysticism does.

The roles of Martial arts instructor and salesman don`t mix.
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
But wait, this actually is a somewhat unusual situation. What we have here, according to what the OP describes, is not a standard faker, but someone who is a very competent trainer of MAists, but who inflates his own reputation by making outrageous claims that you'd think no legitimate expert and successful teacher should need to make. Very strange, I have to say!

I'm afraid I can't answer your question, though I've heard of one or two similar cases. When I hear of such things, I always start from the assumption that instead of being a calculating, cynical charlatan, the instructor in question has... well, has developed a cracked bearing somewhere and lost touch with reality to some extent. In other words, there may be a serious personality problem here rather than an effort to deliberately deceive. But it's hard to say...

MartialTalk has a policy of discouraging `fraudbusting', as you'll have noticed when you read the original Terms of Service, so pursuing this matter more specifically here is definitely not a good idea. But at a more general level, the question `How can it be that a good, competent instructor behaves like a deliberate con artist?' is one that I have no answer for, except the one I mentioned—that you may be looking at some kind of genuine pathology here...

I have to say that I like the way Exile worded this.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
Hard work, sweat and pain don`t sell.
Sensationalism, quick black belts and mysticism does.

The roles of Martial arts instructor and salesman don`t mix.

That is heart breakingly true.
 

qi-tah

Brown Belt
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
436
Reaction score
1
Location
Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia
If you teach commercially and try to teach ethically, keeping costs down etc you will run at a loss trust me! We run 'commerical' classes but frankly it barely covers costs like travelling costs, cleaning materials etc. We have to rely on the MMA shows to make a living.
We could of course have contracts and all that stuff but prefer not to. Means we get pushed out of the market though by the type of club described here. We'll teach you to fight but it won't be the fancy 12 strikes a minute thing.

*gasp* is that... humanly possible??
icon12.gif
 

Em MacIntosh

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
917
Reaction score
16
Location
Lynn Valley, North Vancouver, BC, CA
If you can move that fast, why would you need more than one strike. I've heard of a wing chun practitioner who could do 8 punches per second (supposedly full force). Needless to say I was sceptical of that. Let alone twelve...
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
When we are teaching the kids my instructor will stand there and say to the kids, 'did you see that move?' the kids will go 'wow no'. "See" says my instructor " I was so fast you couldn't even see me move". The kids ponder a minute then start laughing because they know they've been had. If kids can work out it's a joke why can't the adults see it's not real?
 

Em MacIntosh

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
917
Reaction score
16
Location
Lynn Valley, North Vancouver, BC, CA
"Wanna see how fast I can kick? Wanna see it again?", LOL. I guess it's universal. Would be nice to move that fast though. Jacki Chan's so fast he'll spin you around, run out to the parking lot and get a tire iron out of the car and hit you over the head with it. Too bad someone turned himself into a joke. All that training...apperently he's a competent MAist who thinks he has the "super kung-fu". Hafta wonder about that sanity question.
 

Latest Discussions

Top